The Wahabi-type belief was that of a fringe group in hiding throughout most of this nation’s history

Ibn Jibriin, major wahabi, admits this in his book here stating:

When the third century of the Hijrah ended, the last of the best (three) centuries, these books (the books he likes[1]) were unfortunately left for dead, and were stored away without anyone recognizing, reading, or studying them except rarely, and only in hiding. The Asħˆariyy school and Muˆtazilite schools[2] were firmly established and people pored over their study everywhere.[3]

He admits here that his belief system was only taught in hiding! In other words, it was a baaţiniyy[4] type of sect, and not the majority Sunni sect at all. Then he says:

And by careful study of these centuries: the fourth, the fifth, the sixth, and most of the seventh, you do not find anyone that is upon the school of the Sunnah![5]

What is this “School of the Sunnah” that disappeared for 4 centuries?(!!!) We get an idea when he speaks about the books written in those centuries that are so terrible in his view. He takes the Creed of Aţ-Ţaĥaawiyy as an example of the least worst of them (although Aţ-Ţaĥaawiyy was actually among the Salaf, born in the 3rd century) He says about it:

Aţ-Ţaĥaawiyy mentioned in it some terrible statements that were widespread in his time through the kalaam scholars, such as his statement: “Verily Aļļaah is clear of the having limits, extremes, corners, limbs or instruments. The six directions (up, down, front, back, left and right) do not contain Him (un)like all created things.[6]

What we can understand then, is that anthropomorphist creed of believing that Aļļaah is a bodily being, something to be pointed at in a direction, and with parts, and dimensions is what was only taught in hiding during those centuries.

So what, you may ask, happened in the 7th century? Well, who other than Ibn Tayimiyyah? Ibn Jibriin says about him:

He did not care about the people of his time, or about who opposed him. Rather, he spoke openly about what he believed, and renewed that belief of the Salaf, and wrote books that no one can oppose, and clarified in them what is more obvious than the sun…. No doubt, he spoke openly, because Aļļaah gave him knowledge, and ability to explain, so no one in his time could resist him. So he is the one that renewed the Sunni school.[7]

In short, he is telling us above that what he calls the “Sunni belief” was almost extinct for 4 centuries, and was only taught in hiding, due to fear of persecution. So the question then becomes, how can this be sect be called Sunnis in any reasonable persons vocabulary? Moreover, how does that fit with the majority of scholars being Sunnis?

Most importantly: How could this belief of Ibn Taymiyyah possibly be collaboratively, mass-narrated from the salaf, without possibility of perversions by mistakes or otherwise, when it was hidden for four centuries???

That is, how can they claim to know for sure that a belief system that went into hiding has been absolutely reliably narrated from the Salaf? It has only been narrated by a handful of Hanbali pretenders, and in hiding, so it is like the gospel of the christians during their persecution by the jews and the Romans. We all know what happened to their books.

Of course, after Ibn Taymiyyah’s demise in jail for heresy, the school once again became a hidden sect. So much for the, “books that no one could oppose,” and “no one could resist him.” In fact, even christians, who have one of the most irrational belief system on earth, cannot be fended off based on Ibn Taymiyyah’s belief principles. Why? Because his deity is a something with size, shaped by a border that can change, so why couldn’t this deity be Jesus or anything else proposed? This is what some christians are asking. They are of course right. There is no fundamental difference between them and Ibn Taymiyyah.

Ibn Al-Qayyim realized this, and that is why he put on an Asħˆariyy coat when arguing with the christians in his book Hidaayatu-l-Ĥayaaraa Fii ‘Ajwibatu-l-Yahuudi wa-Naşaaraa, “the guidance of the confused regarding answering the christians and jews”:

Fourth, verily Aļļaah does not change[8].[9]

As well known, Ibn Taymiyyah and Ibn Al-Qayyim taught that Aļļaah brings things into existence in Himself, such as changing location and movement. This is one of their main contentions against the ‘Asħˆariyys, who are honest when they say they believe that Aļļaah does not change.

In fact, Ibn Taymiyyah hid his beliefs to a great extent, and that is why some scholars praise him – they did not know about his outrageous beliefs. For example, you find him in one place saying it is kufr to say Aļļaah is a body, then in another that it is not allowed to forbid saying it, and in yet another that Aļļaah has six boundaries and a shrinkable size!

The belief of Ibn Taymiyyah went into hiding again after his death. His books were burned and forbidden to teach, and anyone who spread his teaching faced punishment. Ibn Al-Qayyim, as an example, was jailed and almost executed at one point. That is why even for that period it is hard find books by scholars that support the beliefs of Ibn Taymiyyah.

So we also have the 8, 9th, 10th, 11th centuries free of what Ibn Jibriin calls Sunnism, until the rebellion of Muĥammad ibn ˆAbdilWahhaab in the 12th century after the Hijrah. Since then they have only grown stronger through support from the imperialist powers. It was the British that first supplied them with weapons, and thereby helped to renew the call to the so called “Salafi” version of religion. After that the books of Ibn Taymiyyah were gradually brought out from their hiding places and published.

All Ibn Jibriin says fits perfectly with what TaajudDiin As-Subkiyy[12] said some 600 years ago:

We have already mentioned what Ibn ˆAbdisSalaam and others before and after him mentioned, which is that the Sħaafiˆiyys, Maalikiyys, Ĥanafiyys and the honorable among the Ĥanbaliyys are all ‘Asħˆariyys. This is what was stated by Ibn ˆAbdisSalaam, the leader of Sħaafiˆiyys of his time, and Ibn Al-Ĥaajib, the leader of the Maalikiyys of his time, and Al-Ĥaşiiriyy, the leader of the Ĥanafiyys at the time. Among what was stated by Ibn ˆAsaakir, the great ĥadiitħ master of this Muĥammadan nation, the solid and trustworthy man: “are there any among the jurists, among the Ĥanafiyys, Maalikiyys and Sħaafiˆiyys that do not agree with him and do not related themselves to him, and pleased with his efforts for the religion of Aļļaah, praising him for great knowledge? That is, except for a tiny group that hide anthropomorphism, and make an enemy of those who believe in tawĥiid and clear Aļļaah of likeness to creation. Another exception are those that imitate the saying of the Muˆtazilites in speaking ill of him.[10][11]

As-Subkiyy states regarding the anthropomorphists:

The state of the Kħaţţaabiyyah (as Shiite sect), and they are (i.e. their role is taken over by) the anthropomorphists in this time of ours, (in the sense that they) went to the extent of permitting lying against their religious opponents. Especially those that hurt them in person or property. I was told that their leader was asked about a Sħaafiˆiyy:

“Should I testify against him with a lie in court?”

Their leader said, “Do you not believe that it is allowed to spill his blood?”

The interrogator answered, “Yes I do.”

The leader said, “Then whatever is less than that is less than spilling his blood, so testify and defend the Muslims from his evil.“

So this is their belief, and they think themselves Muslims, and that they are Sunnis (i.e. the anthropomorphists, those that call themselves “salafis” today.”) Yet if their scholars were counted in number, although they are not in reality scholars (because they are deviant), they would not reach a number of any significance. They consider most of the scholars of the Muhammadan nation as non-Muslims, and then they relate themselves to the Imaam ‘Aĥmad ibn Ĥanbal, may Aļļaah please him, but he has nothing to do with them. However, his situation is as some of the enlightened said, as I saw written in hand by Sħaykħ Taqiyyu-d-Diin ibn Aş-Şalaaĥ (the famous author of Muqaddimah ibn Aş-Şalaaĥ[13]: “Two imaams were afflicted in their companions that they were surrounded by, and are clear of them: ‘Aĥmad ibn Ĥanbal was afflicted with anthropomorphists, and Jaˆfar Aş-Şaadiq was afflicted with shiites.[14][15]

Note that the wahabi’s, like their predecessors among anthropomorphists, like to twist things to fit their purpose, and even tend to blatant lies and forgery. As-Subkiyy says:

The state of some anthropomorphists have reached the stage in our time where they wrote a copy of An-Nawawiyy’s commentary on Şaĥiiĥ Muslim, and took out the parts where An-Nawawiyy spoke about ĥadiitħs mentioning attributes. For verily An-Nawawiyy is an Asħˆariyy in belief, so this writer did not find it in himself to copy the book as it was composed by its author. This is an enormous sin, for it is perverting the religion, and opening the door for the loss of confidence in what is written in what people have of books, so may Aļļaah make the one who does that ugly and humiliated[16].[17]

The anthropomorphists continue on this evil path to destroy the correct belief in the Creator. They lie when they claim to be Sunnis, as Ibn Jibriin has just unintentionally implied.

In short, if you are a follower of Ibn Jibriin, Ibn Baaz, Ibn ˆUtħaymiin, and other so-called “Salafis,” know that you are a follower of a sect that has been in hiding for most of history since the Hijrah. They claim to know and follow what the Salaf believed, although they are in opposition to 95% of all scholars of all the major Islamic sciences. Part of this belief includes:

1. Denying the use of rational proof to prove that the Creator exists,

2. Questioning the mind as a tool for knowing right from wrong,

3. Believing that despite the mind being unreliable, a belief that has been narrated in hiding over several centuries is known with absolute certainty to be correctly narrated.

If you think that is just fine, and doesn’t sound like a setup for making you accept blindly, then I can’t help you.

References:

Ibn Al-Qayyim Al-Jawziyyah. Hidaayatu-l-Ĥayaaraa Fii ‘Ajwibatu-l-Yahuudi wa-Naşaaraa. 1 vols. Kairo, Egypt: Daar Ar-Rayyaan li-t-Tutaatħ.

Taajuddiin As-Subkiyy (771 AH). Ţabaqaat Asħ-Sħaafiˆiyyah Al-Kubraa. 10 vols. 2nd ed. Hajr li-l-tibaaˆ wa-nashr wa-t-tawziiˆ, 1413.


[1]Some of these books are by anthropmorphists, some are forgeries attribute to Imam Aĥmad, while others are just following the Asħˆariyy methodology of tafwiiđ, which is to narrate scriptures that could be misunderstood as ascribing created and bodily attributes to Aļļaah, and keep silent about their meaning, while believing that such unfitting meanings are not meant.

[2] Actually, the Muˆtazilite school was never very big, but Ibn Jibriin likes to put them side by side in order to make the impression that they are similar.) In reality there are only a handful of Muˆtazilites that have contributed to any of the Islamic sciences. Most notably Az-Zamakħsħariyy, the famous Quran commentator and linguist. They only had significant influence during a period of the ˆAbbaasiyy dynasty; the subsequent rulers Ma’muun, Al-Muˆtaşim, Al-Waaţħiq and then ended during the rule of Al-Mutawakkil. These were the heydays of this sect, and they achieved influence mainly through getting close to certain rulers. “From the appearance of Al-‘Asħˆariyy on, it was a downhill slope for them, and they eventually became virtually extinct as a sect.

[3]لما انقضى القرن الثالث آخر القرون المفضلة أميتت هذه الكتب مع الأسف، وأصبحت مخزونة لا يعترف بها ولا تُقرأ، ولا تُدرَّس إلا نادرًا وبصفة خفية، وتمكن مذهب الأشاعرة ومذهب المعتزلة أيما تمكن، وانتشر الإكباب عليه، وكثرت الدروس والكتب التي تؤلف فيما يتعلق بهذه العقائد؛ عقيدة الأشعرية وعقيدة المعتزلة، وكادت السُّنة وكُتبها أن لا يكون لها ذكر، بل كاد مذهب الإمام أحمد أن يضمحل، ولم يبق أحد عليه إلا قلة.

[4]Baaţiniyy sects are those that keep their true beliefs hidden from public through lies, deception and hypocrisy.

[5]وبالتتبع لهذه القرون: الرابع والخامس والسادس وأغلب السابع لا تجد فيها من هو على مذهب السنة

[6]وذكر فيها بعض العبارات المنكرة التي اشتهرت في زمانه عن المتكلمين، مثل قوله: إن الله مُنَزَّه عن الحدود والغايات، والأبعاض، والأعراض، لا تحويه الجهات الست كسائر المبتدعات .

[7]لم يبال بأهل زمانه ولا بمن خالفه بل أفصح بما يعتقده، وجدد عقيدة السلف، وكتب فيها المؤلفات التي لا يستطيع أحد أن يعارضه فيها، وبين فيها ما هو أجلى من الشمس….لا شك أنه ما أفصح بذلك إلا لأن الله – تعالى – وهبه علمًا وقدرة على البيان، فلم يستطع أهل زمانه أن يقاوموه، فهو الذي جدد مذهب أهل السنة

[8]المثلثة خالفت أصول الأنبياء في تقديس الله ووصفه بصفات الكمال أحدها إن الله سبحانه وتعالى قديم واحد لا شريك له في ملكه ولا ند ولا ضد ولا وزير ولا مشير ولا ظهير ولا شافع إلا من بعد إذنه. الثالث أنه غنى بذاته فلا يأكل ولا يشرب ولا يحتاج إلى شيء مما يحتاج إليه خلقه بوجه من الوجوه. الرابع إنه لا يتغير ولا تعرض له الآفات من الهرم والمرض والسنة والنوم والنسيان والندم والخوف والهم والحزن ونحو ذلك. الخامس إنه لا يماثل شيئا من مخلوقاته بل ليس كمثله شيء لا في ذاته ولا في صفاته ولا في أفعاله. (هداية الحيارى في أجوبة اليهود والنصارى – (1 / 310)

[9]Ibn Al-Qayyim Al-Jawziyyah, Hidaayatu-l-Ĥayaaraa Fii ‘Ajwibatu-l-Yahuudi wa-Naşaaraa, 310.

[10]وحكينا لك مقالة الشيخ ابن عبد السلام ومن سبقه إلى مثلها وتلاه على قولها حيث ذكروا أن الشافعية والمالكية والحنفية وفضلاء الحنابلة أشعريون هذه عبارة ابن عبد السلام شيخ الشافعية وابن الحاجب شيخ المالكية والحصيرى شيخ الحنفية ومن كلام ابن عساكر حافظ هذه الأمة الثقة الثبت “هل من الفقهاء الحنفية والمالكية والشافعية إلا موافق الأشعرى ومنتسب إليه وراض بحميد سعيه فى دين الله ومثن بكثرة العلم عليه غير شرذمة قليلة تضمر التشبيه وتعادى كل موحد يعتقد التنزيه أو تضاهى قول المعتزلة فى ذمه…”

[11]Taajuddiin As-Subkiyy (771 AH), Ţabaqaat Asħ-Sħaafiˆiyyah Al-Kubraa, 3/373-374.

[12]ِTaajudDiin As-Subkiyy (771 AH/ 1370 AD) the great judge, jurist and historian. Author or such famous books as Jamˆu-l-Jawaamiˆ in fiqh methodology and Ţabaqaat Asħ-Sħaafiˆiyyah on the biographies of the scholars of the Shafiˆiyy school of fiqh. He is the son of ˆAliyy ibn ˆAbdilKaafii As-Subkiyy, who was the head of the scholars of his time.

[13]Ibnu-ş-Şalaaĥ (643 AH/ 1245 AD) is one of the most important scholars of tafsiir, ĥadiitħ and fiqh. He is famous for his Muqaddimatu Ibn Aş-Şalaaĥ, which became the standard for all later books in Ĥadiitħ science.

[14]طبقات الشافعية الكبرى ـ هجر للطباعة والنشر والتوزيع – 1413هـ – (2 /16-17): وقد تزايد الحال بالخطابية وهم المجسمة فى زماننا هذا فصاروا يرون الكذب على مخالفيهم فى العقيدة لا سيما القائم عليهم بكل ما يسوءه فى نفسه وماله. وبلغنى أن كبيرهم استفتى فى شافعى أيشهد عليه بالكذب فقال ألست تعتقد أن دمه حلال قال نعم قال فما دون ذلك دون دمه فاشهد وادفع فساده عن المسلمين. فهذه عقيدتهم ويرون أنهم المسلمون وأنهم أهل السنة ولو عدوا عددا لما بلغ علماؤهم ولا عالم فيهم على الحقيقة مبلغا يعتبر ويكفرون غالب علماء الأمة ثم يعتزون إلى الإمام أحمد بن حنبل رضى الله عنه وهو منهم برئ ولكنه كما قال بعض العارفين ورأيته بخط الشيخ تقى الدين ابن الصلاح إمامان ابتلاهما الله بأصحابهما وهما بريان منهم أحمد ابن حنبل ابتلى بالمجسمة وجعفر الصادق ابتلى بالرافضة

[15]Ibid., 2/16-17.

[16]طبقات الشافعية الكبرى ـ هجر للطباعة والنشر والتوزيع – 1413هـ – (2 / 19): وقد وصل حال بعض المجسمة فى زماننا إلى أن كتب شرح صحيح مسلم للشيخ محيى الدين النووى وحذف من كلام النووى ما تكلم به على أحاديث الصفات فإن النووى أشعرى العقيدة فلم تحمل قوى هذا الكاتب أن يكتب الكتاب على الوضع الذى صنفه مصنفه. وهذا عندى من كبائر الذنوب فإنه تحريف للشريعة وفتح باب لا يؤمن معه بكتب الناس وما فى أيديهم من المصنفات فقبح الله فاعله وأخزاه

[17]Ibid., 2/19.

40 Responses to The Wahabi-type belief was that of a fringe group in hiding throughout most of this nation’s history

  1. 'Abd ul-Ghafûr says:

    As-salamu ´alaykum wa rahmatuLlah,

    JazakaLlahu khayran, shaykh Abu Adam. As always, a very beneficial and informative text.

    If you have the time, I would like to throw you a question related to this topic.

    A while back, a so called “Salafi” made a comment on a well-known blog. The gist of this comment was that, since there was no census data collected back in the old days, it cannot be proven that the majority of scholars have followed the Ash´ari or Maturidi schools. What reply should we give such a person? Refer him or her to biographies, the sayings of our ´ulama’, and so forth? Or how most of the surviving manuscripts on ´aqida are from Ash´ari and or Maturidi ´ulama’, which a knowledge brother mentioned (if that is, indeed, correct)?

  2. Ricardo says:

    Hi cheikh Adam. This site is the best I know about kalam. I have a question about the indivisible element (jawhar). Some people say that its existence is impossible, because if the jawhar has espatial extension, than it is mathematically divisible; any number you imagine, no matter how small, is divisible. And if the jawhar has no extension, than it cannot constitute things that are spatially extended. They say that matter is infinitelly divisible, but never had an infinite number of parts, like the life of men in paradise that never end, but never complete an infinite time (because it is impossible). Can you comment it please? Sorry about my english. Allah bless you.

    • If the quantity is infinitely divisible, then this means that this divisible quantity exists now. This means that the quantity has to be infinite, otherwise it cannot be infinitely divisible, because you need an infinite quantity for there to always be a quantity left to divide, and that is absurd. This is not like the infinite existence of people in Paradise, because none of that exists now.

  3. Ricardo says:

    I am learning the islamic theology (kalam), and became more and more attracted to islam. This site is very helpful. But while I am convinced about the existence of Allah, his atributes and non-resemblance to creation, I do not know proofs of muhammadan prophecy. I would like to find it, because if islam is the truth, so I will became very happy, because it seems a great mercy. But how can I have certainty about it? The so called “scientific miracles” from Quran are, in my opinion, very weak. I am not from islamic family, so I have to find decisive proofs before accepting islam.

  4. Rashid says:

    Assalam u Alaikum,

    Ya Sayyidi! Were Khalifa Ma’moon, Mu’tasim, Wathiq and Al-Mutawakkil Sunnis?

    Wa-Salam,
    Rashid

  5. Abu Ihsan says:

    Subhanallah! He believed Imam al-Tahawi made ‘terrible mistakes’ in declaring Allah free of limits! La illaha illallah!

  6. saif says:

    great post. the wahabiyya today are trying to hide this reality.

  7. Muhammad Ahmad says:

    Salaam ^Alakum Shaykh Abu Adam,

    MashAllah, what a decode.

    The Creator is the only One Who exists eternally (i.e. an existence without a beginning). Before Allàh created any of the creations, nothing other than He existed. There was no place, time, earth, Heavens (skies), space, darkness, light, Hellfire, Paradise and the ^Arsh[1]. Al-Bukhariyy, Al-Bayhaqiyy and Ibnul-Jarud related that the Messenger of Allàh, Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) said:
    قال رسول اللَّه صلى اللَّه عليه وسلم : كَانَ اللَّهُ وَلَمْ يَكُنْ شَىْ ءٌ غَيْرُهُ. رَوَاهُ البُخارِيُّ في الصَّحِيحِ وَالبَيْهَقِيُّ في الأَسْماءِ وَالصِّفاتِ وَابْنِ الجارُود في المُنْتَقَى
    Means: “Allàh existed eternally and nothing else was.” This saying of the Prophet is proof that the Creator of all places exists without a place. This is because it is intellectually impossible that after Allàh created the places from non-existence into existence and He eternally being existent without a place, Allàh would change and dwell in a place! It is determined in the rules of the religion that Allàh’s existence does not change. Change is one of the most prominent characteristics of the creation, because what changes is brought into existence and what is brought into existence is Haditha[2]. Also to change is a clear sign of need and need is not befitting to attribute to Allàh. This is because what changes from one state to another is not God, because anything that changes is needy of the one that changed it and what needs others is weak and what is attributed with weakness, is not God. The Creator of all things that change, He (Allàh) does not change.
    __________________________
    [1] The Heavens are located underneath Paradise and the ^Arsh is the ceiling of Paradise. The ^Arsh is the largest of the creations in size and has four pillars. Some refer to it in English as “the Throne”.
    [2] Haditha an Arabic term means ‘a thing that has a beginning to its existence’. All things (i.e. all the creations) are brought into existence by no other than Allàh alone. Note to believe or say that a thing brought its self into existence is blasphemy. Creating is only an exclusive attribute of Allàh. In the Holy Qur’an, chapter: 35 verse: 3
    قال اللَّه تَعَالىَ : هَلْ مِنْ خَالِقٍ غَيْرُ اللَّهِ. سورة : فَاطِر
    Means: “No one is the Creator except Allàh.”

  8. Muhammad Ahmad says:

    Prasie be to Allàh.

    Salaam to all the brothers/sisters with the Creed that is the KEY to Paradise.

    O you people of the Sunni Creed hold your heads up strong and tall, we are the true followers of the Salaf and Khalaf. Not the Wahabbies with the same Creed the Jews and Christains share.

    Let’s see what the Great Salaf Scholar said about the Creator of all things.

    Imam abu Ja^far At-Tahawi (b.229 d.321After Hijrah[1], 828/920), also lived in the Salaf[2] era, wrote a very famous book called Al-^Aqidah At-Tahawiyyah (the Creed by At-Tahawi). He mentioned that the subject of this book is a detail explanation of the Creed of the people of Ahlus-Sunnah wal-Jamma^ah, which is also the same Creed Imam Abu Hanifah (one of the top scholars of the four (4) schools of thoughts) and his two elite companions adhered to. Imam Abu Hanifah is one of the authorities of the Salaf (b.80 d.150AH, 679/749). Imam abu Ja^far At-Tahawi in his book Al-^Aqidah At-Tahawiyyah (the Creed by At-Tahawi) said:
    قالَ الإِمامُ أَبُو جَعْفََََََرٍ الطَحاوِيُّ رَحْمَةُ اللَّهِ عَلَيْهِ في بَيانِ عَقِيدَةِ أَهْلِ السُّنَّةِ وَالْجَماعَةِ : وَتَعَالَى عَنِ الْحُدُودِ وَالغَايَاتِ وَالأرْكَانِ وَالأَعْضَاءِ وَالأَدَوَاتِ. لا تَحْوِيهِ الْجِهَاتُ السِّتُّ كسائرِ الْمُبتَدَعاتِ.
    Means: “Ta^ala [Allàh is absolutely and totally clear of all] limits[3], boundaries[4], sides[5], organs[6] and limbs[7]. Nor is He contained by the six directions like all created things.” The six directions are (up, down, front, back, left and right). These six primary directions which are created by Allàh contain only the created things and if Allàh was contained by these six primary directions, that would make Him like all created things, which is intellectually impossible. This is because Allàh the Creator is eternal and boundless, unlike the created that is bounded.
    _______________________
    [1] The Hijrah (immigration) of the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allàh be upon him), from Mecca to al-Madinah was an order by Allàh. This Hijrah was also the start of Prophet Muhammad’s Islamic nation calendar.
    [2] The Salaf were among the Muslims who lived during the first three centuries after Hijrah. The Prophet praised the Salaf by saying:
    قال رسول اللَّه صلى اللَّه عليه وسلم : خَيْرُ القُرُونِ قَرْنِى ثُمَّ الذين يَلُونَهُمْ ثُمَّ الذين يَلُُُُونَهُم. رَوَاهُ البخارىّ
    Means: “The best of people [Muslims who live in Prophet Muhammad’s nation] are those who live in my first century, then the one that follows it [second century], then the one that follows it [third century].” So all what is relayed to us from those scholars in that era, the Prophet praised them and we as Muslims must take their knowledge on board in our lifetime, because their belief is in total agreement with the Messenger of Allàh and all of his companions. Imam abu Ja^far At-Tahawi lived during the first 300 years after the immigration of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him), from Mecca to al-Madinah. Hence, Imam At-Tahawi is among the Salaf (successors of the companions) praised by the Prophet in the abovementioned saying of the Prophet. The creed Imam At-Tahawi complied and explained is the same creed all the pious Salaf adhered to and the creed that is taught today to the students of Al-Azhar Al-Shariff University in Cairo Egypt. It is also taught in the University of Az-Zaytouna in Tunisia Africa and in the rest of the Arabian countries like Morocco, Dubai and the nations of Ash-Sham (Syria, Lebanon, Palestine and Jordan). As it is taught in Indonesia, Malaysia, Pakistan, Turkey, Sudan, Yeman, Iraq, India, Africa, Al-Bukharah, Daghistan, Afghanistan and the rest of the Muslim nations.
    [3] All bodies tangible or intangible have limits.
    [4] The blasphemous belief that Allàh is in a place or direction necessitates believing that He has a shape. This is because being in one location and not others means that one must have a border that defines the location one is in, because something in a place is either in a specific place, and not in others. A border linguistically and religiously is defined with a shape, and a shape needs a Creator to have specified it. What needs others is not perfect and is not God. Imam abu Ja^far At-Tahawi is one of the Salaf scholars and he is confirming the belief that Allàh is not attributed with a boundary. What has ends, sides, organs and parts, is a body. A body is either above or below, in front or behind, to the left or to the right of another body. Every creation is confined to these six primary directions. However, Allàh the Creator of all the directions is clear from these six primary directions, because the Creator existed before He created them, without Him being in one or more directions.
    [5] All bodies tangible or intangible have sides.
    [6] Large bodily organs, like face, torso, arms and shins etc.
    [7] Small bodily organs, like foot, eyes, ears, hands, fingers, tongue and lips etc.

    The famous Salaf Imam abu Ja^far At-Tahawi in his book Al-^Aqidah At-Tahawiyyah (the Creed by At-Tahawi) said:
    قالَ الإِمامُ أَبُو جَعْفََََََرٍ الطَحاوِيُّ رَحْمَةُ اللَّهِ عَلَيْهِ في بَيانِ عَقِيدَةِ أَهْلِ السُّنَّةِ وَالْجَماعَةِ : وَهُوَ مُسْتَغْن عَنِ العَرْش وَمَا دُونَهُ.
    Means: “Allàh is in no need of the ^Arsh and what is underneath it.”

    The famous Salaf Imam abu Ja^far At-Tahawi, in his book Al-^Aqidah At-Tahawiyyah (the Creed by At-Tahawi) said:
    قالَ الإِمامُ أَبُو جَعْفََََََرٍ الطَحاوِيُّ رَحْمَةُ اللَّهِ عَلَيْهِ في بَيانِ عَقِيدَةِ أَهْلِ السُّنَّةِ وَالْجَماعَةِ : وَمَنْ وَصَفَ اللَّهَ بِمعنًى مِنْ مَعانِى البَشَرِ فَقَدْ كَفَرَ. فَمَنْ أَبْصَر هَذَا اعتَبَرَ، وَعَنْ مِثْلِ قَوْلِ الكُفَّار انْزَجرَ، وَعَلِمَ أنَّهُ بِصِفَاتِهِ لَيْسَ كَالبَشَرِ.
    Means: “Whoever attributes to Allàh an attribute that has a meaning among the meanings that apply to human [characteristics] has committed blasphemy. Whoever comprehends this should take the warning, and will refrain from sayings like those of the blasphemers, and must know that Allàh and His Attributes, is not like human beings.” This statement is a consensus amongst all the Islamic scholars. The attributes of mankind that Imam At-Tahawi meant, are bodily attributes, colours, shapes, movements, stillness, suspending, sitting, resting, descending, climbing and any other physical attributes of creations. In the Holy Qur’an, chapter: 16 verse: 74
    قال اللَّه تَعَالىَ : فَلاَ تَضْرِبُواْ لِلَّهِ الأَمْثَالَ. سورة : النّحل
    Means: “Do not attribute to Allàh the attributes of creations.” May Allàh protect our hearts and our tongues from falling into the trap of likening Allàh to His creation.

    The famous Salaf Imam abu Ja^far At-Tahawi, in his book Al-^Aqidah At-Tahawiyyah (the Creed by At-Tahawi) said:
    قالَ الإِمامُ أَبُو جَعْفََََََرٍ الطَحاوِيُّ رَحْمَةُ اللَّهِ عَلَيْهِ في بَيانِ عَقِيدَةِ أَهْلِ السُّنَّةِ وَالْجَماعَةِ : وَمَنْ لَمْ يَتَوَقَّ النَّفْىَ وَالتَّشْبِيهَ زَلَّ وَلَمْ يُصِبِ التَّنْزِيهَ. فَإنَّ رَبَّنا جَلَّ وَعَلاَ مَوْصُوفٌ بِصِفاتِ الوَحْدَانِيَّة، مَنْعُوتٌ بِنُعَوتِ الفَرْدَانِيَّةِ. لَيسَ فى مَعْنَاهُ أَحَدٌ مِنَ البَرِينَّةِ.
    Means: “Whoever does not guard himself from denial [negating Allàh’s existence or His Attributes] or likening [resembling Allàh to the creation] has strayed and will not be declaring Allàh to be clear of imperfection. Our Lord, to whom Glory and greatness belong, is attributed with the Attributes of Oneness and Uniqueness. None of the creation has any of His Attributes.”
    Explanation: Whoever does not refrain from denying some or all of Allàh’s attributes, such as the Atheists, Mu^tazilah and philosophers, or from attributing created attributes[8] to Allàh, such as the Wahhabies is astray and does not hold the Tanzih of Allàh (Subhanahu Wa Ta^ala). Allàh has attributes which are exclusive to Him. No one or thing has any of Allàh’s attributes. Allàh is the only God, and no one shares Godhood with Him. Similarly, Allàh is the only One Whose existence is without a beginning. No one or thing shares this attribute with Allàh. This holds true for all the attributes of Allàh.
    ________________________
    [8] To say Allàh is a body, is as if one is saying Allàh is created, because all bodies tangible or intangible are brought into existence (i.e. created by Allàh). Note a body does not create another body. The Creator of bodies is not a body (Subhanahu Wa Ta^ala)

    The famous Salaf Imam abu Ja^far At-Tahawi, in his book Al-^Aqidah At-Tahawiyyah (the Creed by At-Tahawi) said:
    قالَ الإِمامُ أَبُو جَعْفََََََرٍ الطَحاوِيُّ رَحْمَةُ اللَّهِ عَلَيْهِ في بَيانِ عَقِيدَةِ أَهْلِ السُّنَّةِ وَالْجَماعَةِ : وَلاَ نَخُوضُ فى اللَّهِ.
    Means: “We [Muslims] do not indulge in pondering about the Self of Allàh [i.e. Reality Allàh].”

    The famous Salaf Imam abu Ja^far At-Tahawi, in his book Al-^Aqidah At-Tahawiyyah (the Creed by At-Tahawi) said:
    قالَ الإِمامُ أَبُو جَعْفََََََرٍ الطَحاوِيُّ رَحْمَةُ اللَّهِ عَلَيْهِ في بَيانِ عَقِيدَةِ أَهْلِ السُّنَّةِ وَالْجَماعَةِ : وَلاَ تَثْبُتُ قَدَمٌ فى الإِسْلاَمِ إلاَّ على ظَهْرِ التَّسْليمِ والاستِسْلاَم. فَمَنْ رَامَ عِلْْمَ مَا حُظِرَ عَنْهُ عِلْْمُهُ، وَلَمْ يَقْنَعْ بِالتَّسْلِيمِ فَهْمُهُ، حَجَبَهُ مَرَامُهُ عَنْ خَالِصِ التَّوْحِيدِ وَصَافِى المَعْرِفَةِ وَصَحِيحِ الإِيمانِ. فَيَتَذَبْذَبُ بَيْنَ الكُفْرِ وَالإِيمَانِ، وَالتَّصْدِيقِ وَالتَّكْذِيبِ، وَالإِقْرارَ وَالإِنْكارِ، مُوَسْوِسًا تائِهًا شاكًّا، لا مُؤمِنًا مُصَدّقًا وِلا جاحِدًا مُكَذّبًا.
    Means: “Ones Islam is not correct unless it is based on submission and surrendering to Allàh. Whoever fails this and desires to know what is beyond his ability, and whose mind is not satisfied to leave it to Allàh who knows it. He has prevented himself from absolute Tawhid, clear knowledge and correct belief. So he sways between blasphemy and belief, acknowledgment and denial, acceptance and rejection. He will be subject to whispers, and will be lost and doubtful, being neither an accepting believer nor a denying disbeliever.”
    Explanation: Ones faith cannot be correct unless one submits and surrenders to Allàh by accepting His orders, prohibitions and by not objecting to Him. Also not attributing to Allàh what does not befit Him. Hence, one must submit and accept what is beyond our ability to know. An example is that the Reality of Allàh is not known except by Allàh. Whoever tries to imagine Allàh’s Reality blasphemes for likening Allàh to the creations. Such a person is far from adhering to the absolute Tawhid belief and having pure knowledge about Allàh. Consequently, he believes in some of what the Prophet conveyed and disbelieves in other fundamental matters. In other words, he acknowledges the belief that Allàh exists, however he denies the correct knowledge and belief about Allàh (i.e. likens Allàh to the creations) and this is combining belief with blasphemy. As a result, he is lost with no correct foundation in belief, subject to whispers and at the same time he is not claiming to be like an outspoken blasphemer (i.e. he claims to be a believer, but is not). Such a person is definitely a blasphemer. That’s what one encounters when one does not submit to Allàh and attributes to Allàh what does not befit Him.

    The proof is clear as the sun light in midday.

    • upon-sunnah says:

      actually at-tahawiyy believed allah to be above the arsh, he was not an ashaer3i nor was he a jahmi, he was a sunni

    • upon-sunnah says:

      at tahawi was right right when he said: The six directions do not enclose, contain, encompass, surround Him as [is the case with] all of the created things
      this shows that imam tahawiy believed allah to be above the arsh bedhaatihi, cuz he knows whatever is enclosed by the six direction is created,he knows Allah is above the creation that is enclosed by the six direction.
      anything that lives within the universe in enclosed by the six direction.
      he knows allah is above the enclosed universe where the notion of six direction does not apply.

      • If direction does not apply to Him, then He is not in a direction and thus not in a place or location. Your statement “where the notion of six direction does not apply” is self contradictory, because “where” indicates location, and therefore direction.

        If you say that Aļļaah is in a place/location over the Arsh, then you are saying that He is a body, because being in a location necessitates borders for the thing in that place. This is because something in a location is either in all locations, or in some location(s). If it is in some location, but not others, it must be confined by a border and have a size and shape limiting it to that location i.e. it must be a body. That is why it makes no sense to say that Aļļaah is in a place, but is not a body. For this reason, Aţ-Ţaĥaawiyy denied limits and boundaries, to make it abundantly clear that Aļļaah is not in a location or direction. Not with respect to us, and not with respect to Himself.

      • upon-sunnah said: “dont twist imam tahawiy’s word, he didnt say the notion of direction does not apply to him, he said the notion of SIX direction collectively doent apply to Allah.”

        Comment: You are not thinking. Aţ-Ţaĥaawiyy denied limits and boundaries, to make it abundantly clear that Aļļaah is not in a location or direction of any kind. Not with respect to us, and not with respect to Himself.

        upon-sunnah said: “denying imits and bouderies for allah ,is to say he exists everywhere.”

        Comment: That is not true, because we do not believe that Allaah is a body, i.e. something with size or shape, and thus He does not need a place or space to exist, and accordingly, He does not have a boundary, limit or direction. See https://sunnianswers.wordpress.com/2009/01/18/bodies-have-limits-but-not-Allaah/

        upon-sunnah said: “to say Allah is above the arsh doesnt necessitate him being a bodylike created bodies at all.thats a false necessity.”

        Comment: Yes it does necessitate that, if you mean in direction, because a body is something with size and shape, and being in a direction necessitates being in a place, because if you say that Aļļaah is in a place/location over the Arsh, then you are saying that He is a body, as being in a location necessitates borders for the thing in that place. This is because something in a location is either in all locations, or in some location(s). If it is in some location, but not others, it must be confined by a border and have a size and shape limiting it to that location i.e. it must be a body like bodies in essence, i.e. have a size and shape. For this reason, Aţ-Ţaĥaawiyy denied limits and boundaries, to make it abundantly clear that Aļļaah is not in a location or direction. Not with respect to us, and not with respect to Himself.

      • upon-sunnah says:

        nobody said allah is in location/place over t6he arsh, we simply say he is above the arsh.
        you already affirm his jismiyah by saying he has no boundary and no limit. you basically saying he is everywhere.
        on top of tghat imam tahawiy made it clear that Allah is above the arsh

        والعرش والكرسي حق، وهو مستغن عن العرش وما دونه، محيط بكل شيء وفوقه
        And the Arsh and the Kursee are haqq (true, real). And He [Allaah] is not in need of the Arsh and whatever is below it. He encompasses everything and is above the arsh.

      • upon-sunnah, I already answered this several times. Did you miss that or do you just like to be annoying? Here is one of my previous answers:
        ————————————–
        upon-sunnah said: “dont twist imam tahawiy’s word, he didnt say the notion of direction does not apply to him, he said the notion of SIX direction collectively doent apply to Allah.”

        Comment: You are not thinking. Aţ-Ţaĥaawiyy denied limits and boundaries, to make it abundantly clear that Aļļaah is not in a location or direction of any kind. Not with respect to us, and not with respect to Himself.

        upon-sunnah said: “denying imits and bouderies for allah ,is to say he exists everywhere.”

        Comment: That is not true, if you mean direction, because we do not believe that Allaah is a body, i.e. something with size or shape, and thus He does not need a place or space to exist, and accordingly, He does not have a boundary, limit or direction. See https://sunnianswers.wordpress.com/2009/01/18/bodies-have-limits-but-not-Allaah/

        upon-sunnah said: “to say Allah is above the arsh doesnt necessitate him being a bodylike created bodies at all.thats a false necessity.”

        Comment: Yes it does necessitate that, if you mean direction, because a body is something with size and shape, and being in a direction necessitates being in a place, because if you say that Aļļaah is in a place/location over the Arsh, then you are saying that He is a body, as being in a location necessitates borders for the thing in that place. This is because something in a location is either in all locations, or in some location(s). If it is in some location, but not others, it must be confined by a border and have a size and shape limiting it to that location i.e. it must be a body like bodies in essence, i.e. have a size and shape. For this reason, Aţ-Ţaĥaawiyy denied limits and boundaries, to make it abundantly clear that Aļļaah is not in a location or direction. Not with respect to us, and not with respect to Himself.
        ————————————–

        Your translation “He encompasses everything and is above the arsh,” is wrong. What it states is that He is “above everything,” and the meaning is without a limit or boundary or direction, so the meaning is that His knowledge encompasses everything, i.e. He knows everything in complete detail, and is above it in power and status, or the like.

        I will not permit any more comments from you that are apparently meant to waste my time.

  9. Ricardo says:

    Thank you, sheikh Adam. What is the value of this consensus (about jawhar)? Is just a more probable, or we have certainty?

  10. faqir says:

    as-salamu `alaikum

    Instead of discussing the Ahbash sect and / or Ibn Taymiyya can we perhaps come back to the useful topic of the original post?

    It would be helpful if the following quote of Ibn `Asakir from Tabyin Kadhib al-Muftari can be discussed:

    يكفي اعتراف اساطين الاشعرية بقلة اتباعهم و بأن السواد الاعظم يخالفهم حتى قال ابن عساكر في تبيين المفتري :

    ( فإن قيل أن الجم الغفير في سائر الأزمان وأكثر العامة في جميع البلدان لا يقتدون بالأشعري ولا يقلدونه ولا يرون مذهبه ولا يعتقدونه وهم السواد الأعظم وسبيلهم السبيل الأقوم قيل لا عبرة بكثرة العوام ولا التفات إلى الجهال الغتام وإنما الإعتبار بأرباب العلم والاقتداء بأصحاب البصيرة والفهم وأولئك في أصحابه أكثر ممن سواهم ولهم الفضل والتقدم على من عداهم على ان الله عزوجل قال وما آمن من معه إلا قليل وقال عز من قائل وقليل من عبادي الشكور )

    This was selectively quoted and commented on by a Wahabbi called Faisal al-jasim as follows:

    “So if it is said the vast amount of people in all epochs and the majority of common people in all countries do not follow al-Ash’ari, and neither uncritically follow him in everything and agree with his madhhab. These are the vast majority and their path is the best way”

    Ibn ul-Mabrad stated in commenting upon this:

    These words indicate the accuracy of what we have stated, that during the time of Ibn `Asakir and before, the Asha’irah were overpowered and then after that their affair did not manifest.

    [end of quote from al-Jasim’s piece translation]

    It would be useful if ibn `Asakir’s quote could be translated and explained in context to clarify this further.

    jazakumAllahu khayran.

    • Abdullah says:

      Faqir said: “Instead of studying the Ahbash sect…”

      The Ahbash are not a ‘sect’. They are Sunni Muslims who disown the Wahhabi belief and follow Shaykh Abdullah Al-Harrariy who follows the correct creed.

      They believe:Allah exists without a place. Allah is without need. Allah created everything. Allah existed before everything. After created everything-place,light,darkness,EVERYTHING-Allah did NOT change and dwell in the creation. Allah is as He was, without a place. Whatever Allah wills to be shall be, and whatever He does not shall not be.Allah is Perfect, unimaginable, and All-Powerful. Allah is not above the Heavens, nor in a place. Allah is not contained, nor literally above the Arsh. Allah did not ‘rise over the Arsh’. Whoever believes that ‘Allah rose, or that He is literally above the Arsh’ is a kafir.

      Wahhabies say the founder of this alleged sect is Shaykh Abdullah Al-Harrariy and they disparage him by formulating lies.

      Shaykh Abdullah is the son of Muhammad Ash-Shaybiyy(the surname Ash-Shaybiyy refers to that Shaykh Abdullah is from the tribe of Shaybah, a branch of Quraysh). He was born in the city of Harar, the capital of knowledge in Ethiopia(the city has 99 mosques and 7 gates!). He sought the Religious knowledge from many shaykhs, among whom are Shaykh Muhammad Ibn Abdis-Salam, who was a very pious Shafi’iyy Scholar, Shaykh Muhammad Siraj al-Jabartiyy, who was the Mufti of Habashah(Also known as Abysinnia or Ethiopia), and Shaykh Ahmad Ibn Abdil Muttalib, who was the Shaykh of the Reciters of the Qur’an in Makkah.

      Shaykh Abdullah mastered the Science of Tawheed, The Science of Fiqh, the Science of Hadith, The science of the arabic language and Grammar, the science of the different recitations of the Qur’an(he memorized the Qur’an at the age of 7 with at least 7 different recitations), The science of the interpretation of the Qur’an, the Sciences of Calculation and Astronomy, the Science of the Fundamentals of Fiqh, and others.

      His book “Mukhtaru ‘Abdillah-il-Hararriy,al-Kafilubi^Ilm-id-Din-Darurriy”(A Brief Explanation of the Summary of ^Abdullah Al-Harariyy)is a diamond and contains everything a new Muslim should know, and all Muslims. He has many other books, but this is one of the most famous and has an english version.

      Unfortunately, he died (rahimullah)around 15 months ago. See via youtube, “Shaykh Abdullah exposes Wahhabis”.

      His students are persistent in spreading the creed and are all over the world.

  11. Muhammad says:

    So-called upon-sunnah, your brain washed by the Wahhabie poision. Read and see why?

    Shaykh Abu Adam has clearly proven to you what limits, boundaries, sides, organs and limbs are. The Great Imam At-Tahawi cleared Allàh (Subhanahu Wa Ta^ala) from all these.

    Note to be fixed in a place means one is in need of that place to reside in. The famous Salaf Imam abu Ja^far At-Tahawi in his book Al-^Aqidah At-Tahawiyyah (the Creed by At-Tahawi) said:
    قالَ الإِمامُ أَبُو جَعْفََََََرٍ الطَحاوِيُّ رَحْمَةُ اللَّهِ عَلَيْهِ في بَيانِ عَقِيدَةِ أَهْلِ السُّنَّةِ وَالْجَماعَةِ : وَهُوَ مُسْتَغْن عَنِ العَرْش وَمَا دُونَهُ.
    Means: “Allàh is in no need of the ^Arsh and what is underneath it.”

    Also, Imam abu Ja^far At-Tahawi followed Imam Abu Hanifah in Creed. Let’s see what the Imam Abu Hanifah (b.80 d.150AH, 679/749) who was also among the Great Salaf scholars, in his book Al-Fiqh Al-Absat said:
    نَقَلَ الإِمامُ أَبُو مَنْصُورٍ الْمَاتُرِيدِيُّ في شَرْحِهِ عَلى الْفِقْهِ الأَكْبَرِ أَنَّ الإِمامَ أَبا حَنِيفَةَ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ قالَ : كان قبل المكان كان ولم يكن أين ولا خلق وهو خالق كل شىء.
    Means: “Allàh’s existence is eternal and eternally place did not exist. His eternal existence was before creating the creation. He eternally exists and eternally there was no place or any other creation and He is the Creator of everything.”

    Also, Imam Abu Hanifah said in his Wasiyya:
    قَالَ الإمامُ أبو حنيفَةَ رضي اللَّه عنه في الوصيَّة : نُقِرُّ بأنَّ اللَّهَ تعالى اسْتَوَى على العَرشِ مِن غيرِ أنْ يكونَ له حاجةٌ واستِقرارٌ عليه، وهو حافظُ العرشِ وغيرِ العرشِ مِن غيرِ احْتِياجٍ ولو كان محتاجاً لمَاَ قدر على إيجادِ العالم وتدبيرِه كالمخلوقين ولو كان مُحْتاجاً لِلجلوسِ والاستقرار فقَبْلَ خلقِ العرشِ أين كان اللَّه؟ تعالى عَنْ ذلك عُلُوّاً كَبيرّاً.
    Means: “Allàh is the maintainer of the ^Arsh and everything else. Allàh is not in need of anything. For had Allàh been in need, He would not have the power to create, control and maintain the world. Furthermore, had He been in a place needing to sit and rest, before creating the ^Arsh, where was Allàh?” That is, the question: “Where was Allàh”, would have applied to Him, which is impossible.

    Leave now the Wahhabie kufur beliefs and enter the Sunni belief system that the famous Salaf Imam abu Ja^far At-Tahawi was on and taught.

    One is not a Muslim (even if they believe they are) if one either believes, doubts or says that Allàh resembles the creations or exists in a direction or place. The Islamic consensus on the matter is one did not truly believe in Allàh and is classified a kafir (non-believer). Immediately one must STOP the blasphemy which contradicts the Islamic belief and must correct ones belief (i.e. Allàh does not resemble the creations in any way and He exists without a how and without a place) and must utter with one’s tongue in an audible level:
    أشهدُ أنْ لاَ إِلَهَ إِلاَّ اللَّه وأشهدُ أنَّ محمّدًا رَّسولُ اللَّه
    “I testify that no one is god except Allàh and I testify that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allàh.”

    If one repents by admitting the truth of what he either denied in the heart, doubted or said and utters the testification of faith, then one has returned back to Islam.

  12. Abu Fatimah says:

    Assalamu ‘alaikum wa rahmatullahi Ta’ala wa barakatuhu.

    Barakallahu fikum for the great article, shaykh Abu Adam, may Allah grant You tawfiq to do much more than You do for Da’awah.

    Abu Fatimah,
    Russia.

  13. Abdullah says:

    Asalamu Aleykum Sheikh,

    May Allah protect you for the wonderful job you are doing.

    I have a question: Can we use the hadith from Sahih Muslim against the belief of the wahhabis regarding Allah being physicaly above the arsh. The hadith which states “O Allah you are Dhahir, there is nothing above You. O Allah you are Al Batin there is nothing below You.”

    Jazak Allah khair.

    • Waˆalaykumussalaam,, yes of course you can.

      • Abdullah says:

        shukran Sheikh,

        I was wondering if there is a tafsir regarding this hadith which was not relevant to refuting the wahhabis… even though the wahhabis claim they dont do tawil (at least according to my understanding).

        Anyhow, may Allah protect you!

        selamu alaikum

  14. 'Abd ul-Ghafûr says:

    As-salamu ´alaykum wa rahmatuLlah,

    Shaykh, if you have the time, could you write (or link, if it is on the web) the above hadith, “O Allah, you are Dhaahir . . .” in Arabic, as well as providing the source?

    The hadith is fantastic for “da´wah” purposes, when confronted by anthropomorphists! Unfortunately, I do not have the means to find it myself.

  15. 'Abd ul-Ghafûr says:

    Jazaka Llahu khayran, shaykh!

  16. Abraham says:

    “Why? Because his deity is a something with size, shaped by a border that can change, so why couldn’t this deity be Jesus or anything else proposed? This is what some christians are asking. They are of course right. There is no fundamental difference between them and Ibn Taymiyyah.”

    1) he cannot be Jesus because he cannot be born (i.e., created).
    2) he cannot be Jesus because Jesus is fully human.
    3) he cannot be Jesus because Jesus did not…. hmmmm… fly? ..etc

    and “christians” are NOT like ibn taymiyyah because they have THREE Persons which is in Islamic theology Blasphemy and Shirk and ibn taymiyyah has this not .

    • The point is that once you claim that the Creator is a body, then there is nothing logical that prevents christian beliefs. Once you claim Allaah is a body, then all that is possible for bodies become possible according to your viewpoint. Most fundamentally, a body can be beget, because begetting means that a part of a body is separated and grows and become another body. Indeed, Ibn Taymiyyah affirms divisibility to Allaah. After all, in the mind’s eye, this is possible for all bodies. Moreover, he also implies that the world is inside Allaah, which is equivalent in meaning to pregnancy.

      Moreover, all bodies need a creator. If you claim otherwise then you can no longer prove that this world needs a creator. All arguments to prove that the creator exists is based on this fundamental premise. That is why the wahabies are afraid of delving into such proofs, OR simply contradict themselves by using this premise and then turn around and claim that Allaah has bodily attributes like shape, size, location or movement.

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