Wahabi Contention: “It is intellectual dishonesty/illogical for the Asharis/Maturidis to claim infinite events is possible in the future but not in the past”

Comment: This person has completely missed the point and his attempt to hide behind big words like “intellectual” and “illogical” does not hide his ignorance. The point is that to finish infinity is impossible. If you say infinity has passed, then you are saying it has finished, and this is absurd, because infinity means that it will not finish. When you say that infinite events in the future is possible, you are not saying it will finish, so this is COMPLETELY different. This is not just the saying of Asharis/Maturidis, but of anyone who uses his mind.

I think part of the problem is that people call it “infinite regression” which is totally misleading. It is not regression, it is past infinite progression coming to completion we are saying is impossible, or a completed infinite loop if you will. The reason is that it is self contradictory to say that it has passed/completed/finished.

Books on wisdom written by scholars state, “do not befriend a fool, for he may unknowingly harm you.” These wahabis have reached the ultimate in this regard, as they are unknowingly harming even themselves.

Al-ĥamdu lillaahi ˆalaa niˆmati-l-ˆaql.

9 Responses to Wahabi Contention: “It is intellectual dishonesty/illogical for the Asharis/Maturidis to claim infinite events is possible in the future but not in the past”

  1. Wahabi says:

    informative post.

  2. Souphienne says:

    Bismillah wassalam’aleykum

    I have to say that the wording:
    “past infinite progression coming to completion”
    is extremely effective in order to understand this concept!
    BarrakAllahoufikoum Schaykh!

    Wassalam

  3. Souphienne says:

    Bismillah wassalam’aleykum Schaykh

    About this part:

    The point is that to finish infinity is impossible. If you say infinity has passed, then you are saying it has finished, and this is absurd, because infinity means that it will not finish.

    Is it ok to understand it with these words added:

    The point is that to finish AN INFINITE NUMBER OF EVENT ONE BY ONE is impossible. If you say THAT AN infinitE NUMBER OF EVENTS has passed, then you are saying THEY haVE finished, and this is absurd, because HAVING AN infinitE AMOUNT OF EVENTS TO PERFORM means that THEY will not finish.

    Wassalam,
    Souphienne.

  4. Athari says:

    Salam aleikum

    That doesn’t work.You are not considering the case of a beginningless serie of events,i.e. a serie with no first event.You have no way to prove that this serie can’t finish.With this trick you can only show that between a present event and a first event in the past there can’t be an infinite amount of events,nothing more.But if I say:can you proove that a beginningless progression of event,i.e. a progression with no first event in time, can’t end?YOU SIMPLY CANT.And the fact that you uses a lot this trick,this “impossibility of an infinite regress”,in showing “results” about Allah and His attributes is very wrong.
    So people follow the salafs,and there is no need to be wahabi or an antropomorphist to follow the salafs.No need of this “infinite regress” thing.In the Tahawiyya there is no infinite regress.

    • You speak nonsense. The whole point of the argument is that an infinite series of events cannot end because an infinity cannot be completed. It does not matter whether you say it has a beginning or not.

  5. It was said:

    But if I say:can you prove that a beginningless progression of event,i.e. a progression with no first event in time, can’t end?

    This is the problem itself, in that a “progression with no first event in time” does not have any representation in the real world, in much the same way that the “most negative number at the end of minus infinity” cannot exist due to the definition of infinity.

    To take any other view is to equate our religion with that of the Christians, etc., who consign rationality to irrelevance when discussing crucial aspects of their religion.

  6. muslim says:

    Kindly comment on whether this is accurately representing the Ash’ari position as expounded by Sanusi…

    • Bottom line: To believe that anything has beginning-less existence other than Allaah is kufr, kufr, kufr. BTW it is not Sanusi’s words that are being translated, but supposedly Al-Dusuuqi’s. There are a lot of problems with the passage, just one of them being the attribution of an opinion to Sanusi that he has not stated. However, there is no need to get hung up in weird passages in big books – I’ve spoken of this before; it is a big waste of time. At the end of the day we want to know the correct belief, and that is that nothing has beginning-less existence other than Allaah.

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