The wahabi doctrine of flawed aboveness

Al-Qurţubiyy states:

I say accordingly that Aļļaah’s aboveness and His highness refers to His highness of glory and attributes and greatness. That is, nothing is above Him when it comes to the meanings of greatness that are necessarily ascribed to Him, and there is nothing that shares His aboveness with Him. Rather He is the most High in the absolute sense, subĥaanah.1 (Tafsiir Al-Qurţubiyy, 7 / 220)

Note that because aboveness in location is relative, unlike the absolute aboveneness that Al-Qurţubiyy affirms, those who believe in it are bound to attribute flaw to Aļļaah. In Al-Asnaa Al-Qurţubiyy says this explicitly:

It is said to them [the anthropomorphists who believe Aļļaah is in a place or direction, etc.]: “If Allaah was specified by a specification, formed by a form, limited by a limit and end, existing in a specific direction, [or] changing by emergent [previously non existing] attributes in Himself, then He would have been emergent and specified by whatever He was specified with in terms of quantity and form, and [thus] requiring a specifier [for the quantity and form], and if He required a specifier, then He would have been in need and emergent. And if this is invalid, then it is true that He is without a limit or an end, and that He is Self-existent in the sense that He does not need a place to confine Him or a body to be in, or something to hold Him, or another that He gets help from. His attributes of His self do not change by His actions or leaving them. (Al-Asnaa, 2/21)

In short, Al-Qurţubiyy says that believing Allaah’s aboveness is one of direction/ location necessitates believing He has a flaw. This is because it necessitates likening Him to things that need a creator to specify it.

It also necessitates another flaw. This additional flaw is that they will either have to say that Aļļaah can create a body above Himself, and thereby become below, or that He cannot, and have thereby attributed to Him lack of power to create bodies anywhere He chooses.

They have also made Him, according to their belief, dependent on creating something below Himself, in order to achieve aboveness. No wonder then, that Ibn Taymiyyah said Aļļaah must create something or another. According to him, the Creator would lose His aboveness if He did not! Such is the dilemma of the relative aboveness doctrine of wahabism.

1تفسير القرطبي – (7 / 220): قلت: فعلوا الله تعالى وارتفاعه عبارة عن علو مجده وصفاته وملكوته. أي ليس فوقه فيما يجب له من معاني الجلال أحد، ولا معه من يكون العلو مشتركا بينه وبينه، لكنه العلي بالإطلاق سبحانه.


Al-Asnaa Fii Sħarĥi Asmaa’-illaahi-l-Ĥusnaa. Al-Qurţubiyy. 1995: Daar Aş-Şaĥaabah Li-t-Turaatħ.

Jaamiˆu Aĥkaami-l-Qur’aan. Al-Qurţubiyy (671 AH), Sħasuddiin. Ed. Aĥmad Al-Farduuniyy & Ibraahiim Aţfiisħ. Kairo, Egypt: Daar ˆaalam Al-Kutub Al-Mişriyyah, 1384.

9 Responses to The wahabi doctrine of flawed aboveness

  1. Ahmad-Qadri says:

    These retarded kafirs show the filth of their beliefs here, in the “basics” of their beliefs:

    3. The Path of Ahlus-Sunnah wal-Jamaa’ah regarding an attribute that is neither affirmed nor negated by the texts
    The path of Ahlus-Sunnah wal-Jamaa’ah regarding an attribute that is neither affirmed nor negated by the texts regarding which the people have disputed – such as al-Hayyiz (space and location), al-Jihah (direction) and other than that, then the Path of Ahlus-Sunnah wal-Jamaa’ah is not to utilize these terminologies but rather to withhold – not affirming them absolutely and not negating them absolutely due to the fact that they do not appear in the texts…

    So according to these mulhids direction and space and location for Allah are not negated by texts?!

    Being in a direction and space and location necessitates being a body, ie creation, something which is negated by scriptures.

    Not to mention the texts which state that Allah created the universe, ie space and location and direction, and all that is in it.

    “There was nothing and there was Allah” perhaps doesn’t mean anything to these kafirs. To them, Allah exists inside what He created or that space and locations existed eternally with Him.

    They can call themselves Ahlus Sunnah till they turn blue in the face but in reality, they are the brothers of abu jahl.

    They very cleverly say that people have “disputed” over them and that one should not affirm and not withhold from them planting seeds of doubt in the faiths of the gullible.

    The mentioning of “dispute” is only so that they can play this “dispute” card and somehow gain a back door entry into the Ahlus Sunnah legitimizing their ugly beliefs.

    May Allah destroy their faces and shower His la3nah on these enemies of Islam. la3anahum’Allah

  2. daud says:

    The magnitude of highness of their Lord is proportional to the distance between their Lord & the creation concerned.

    wa salaam

  3. Muhammad Ahmad says:

    Imam Abu Hanifah (b.80 d.150AH, 679/749) who was also among the Salaf, said in his Wasiyya:
    قَالَ الإمامُ أبو حنيفَةَ رضي اللَّه عنه في الوصيَّة : نُقِرُّ بأنَّ اللَّهَ تعالى اسْتَوَى على العَرشِ مِن غيرِ أنْ يكونَ له حاجةٌ واستِقرارٌ عليه، وهو حافظُ العرشِ وغيرِ العرشِ مِن غيرِ احْتِياجٍ ولو كان محتاجاً لمَاَ قدر على إيجادِ العالم وتدبيرِه كالمخلوقين ولو كان مُحْتاجاً لِلجلوسِ والاستقرار فقَبْلَ خلقِ العرشِ أين كان اللَّه؟ تعالى عَنْ ذلك عُلُوّاً كَبيرّاً.
    Meaning: “Allàh is the maintainer of the ^Arsh and everything else. Allàh is not in need of anything. For had Allàh been in need, He would not have the power to create, control and maintain the world. Furthermore, had He been in a place needing to sit and rest, before creating the ^Arsh, where was Allàh?”

    That is, the question: “Where was Allàh”, would have applied to Him, which is impossible.

    It was related that a group of Jews came to the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) and said: “O Muhammad, describe to us your Lord Whom you worship.”
    أخرَجَ البيهقيُ عن ابن عباس أنَّ اليهود اتوا الى النبي فقالوا : يا محمَّد صفْ لنا ربَّك الذي تعبدُهُ. فنَزلتْ الايةُ : قُلْ هُوَ اللَّهُ أَحَدٌ * اللَّهُ الصَّمَدُ * لَمْ يَلِدْ وَلَمْ يُولَدْ * وَلَمْ يَكُن لَّهُ كُفُوًا أَحَدٌ. هذه صفةُ ربي عزّ وَجَلَ.
    The Prophet answered them the chapter (112) in the Holy Qur’an containing the 4 fundamental verses which were revealed to him:
    Verse 1 means: Say: [O Muhammad] He is Allàh, the One [One meaning without any partners].
    Verse 2 means: Allàh is self-sufficient [Non neediness of others. Allàh is the One needed by all and He needs none].
    Verse 3 means: He does not beget children, nor is He begotten [Allàh did not give birth to anyone and He was not given birth to. Allàh is not the origin of anything and He did not originate from anything].
    Verse 4 means: There is none, in any way similar to Allàh.
    Then the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) continued to say to the Jews:
    هذه صفةُ ربي عزّ وَجَلَ.
    Means: These are the attributes of my Lord عزّ وَجَلَ / Azzawajall [the One who we declare is clear of all non-befitting attributes]. The questioning of the Jews was with the intent of mockery and not to seek the knowledge. Note the Prophet did not respond to the Jews that Allàh is a body with organs or He is in a direction of above or that He is sitting on the ^Arsh. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) informed the Jews who are known that they believe God is a body that exists above the ^Arsh, a clear answer from the Holy Qur’an which is clear Tawhid, the belief that Allàh is the only God who does not resemble any of the creations.

  4. Muhammad Ahmad says:

    They (Wahabies) say: “Beneath is not as noble as above and the most suitable qualities are attributable to Allàh. So if being above is more noble than being beneath, obviously common sense will tell you that Allàh will not be in the direction which is not suitable for His perfection.” This rule the Wahabies claim is not in agreement with the teachings of Islam. The reason being, the Prophets and Messengers of Allàh (peace and blessings be upon all of them) are the highest in rank than all the other creations of Allàh. In the Holy Qur’an, chapter: 6 verse: 86
    وَكُلاًّ فَضَّلْنَا عَلَى الْعَـلَمِينَ. سورة : الأنعَام
    Means: “Allàh gave every Prophet high status over the rest of the creations.” Therefore, the Prophets and Messengers of Allàh lived beneath (on earth), not in (the skies above) like the Angels. The Messenger of Allàh, Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) said:
    قال رسول اللَّه صلى اللَّه عليه وسلم : مَا في السَّمَاءِ مَوْضِعُ أَرْ بَعِ أَصَابِعَ إلا وَفِيهِ مَلَكٌ قَائِمٌ أَوْ رَاكِعٌ أَوْسَاجِدٌ يَذْكُرُ اللَّهَ تَعَالى. رَوَاهُ الترمذي عن أبي ذر الغفاري
    Means: “There is no space in the sky equal to the width of four fingers, except one would find an Angel worshipping and glorifying Allàh, either standing, Ruku^ [bowing] or Sujud [prostration].” The Angels stay as such until the Day of Judgement, worshipping Allàh their Creator.

  5. Muhammad Ahmad says:

    Subhana / سُبحانَ an Arabic term derived from the Holy Qur’an means: “Tanzih, i.e. we declare that Allàh is clear of all non-befitting attributes.” Note, it is recommended practice in the prayer, while in Ruku^ (bowing position) to say 3 times:
    سُبحانَ رَبّىَِ العظيم
    Subhana Rabbiyal ^Adhim
    Means: “We declare that Allàh is clear of all non-befitting attributes and He is my Great Lord.” Also, it is recommended practice in the prayer, while in Sujud (prostration position) to say 3 times:
    سُبحانَ رَبّىَِ الأعلَى
    Subhana Rabbiyal A^la
    Means: “We declare that Allàh is clear of all non-befitting attributes and He is my Supreme Lord.” Muslims are obligated to pray 5 times a day and look how many times Muslims say Tanzih everyday, 153 times a day (Allàhu Akbar). Dammed are those who liken Allàh to the creation. In short, the Wahabies (those who liken the Creator to the creation) are calling people of Islam to believe in the Anthropomorphism of the Christians and Jews in the name of Islam! Indeed, with them it has become the test of belief.

  6. Ahmad-Qadri says:

    One could try to accord these shayateen the benefit of the doubt, if they were just against taweel.

    However, in their dead set opposition to *TAFWEED* as well and on their insistence to accept literal meanings (what they call dhahiri), they exhibit the their true figure-worshiping doctrines and their enmity against Islam and Muslims who follow in the beliefs of the sahaba and the salaf as taught by the blessed Prophet of Allah, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him.

    هُوَ الَّذِيَ أَنزَلَ عَلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ مِنْهُ آيَاتٌ مُّحْكَمَاتٌ هُنَّ أُمُّ الْكِتَابِ وَأُخَرُ مُتَشَابِهَاتٌ فَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ في قُلُوبِهِمْ زَيْغٌ فَيَتَّبِعُونَ مَا تَشَابَهَ مِنْهُ ابْتِغَاء الْفِتْنَةِ وَابْتِغَاء تَأْوِيلِهِ وَمَا يَعْلَمُ تَأْوِيلَهُ إِلاَّ اللّهُ وَالرَّاسِخُونَ فِي الْعِلْمِ يَقُولُونَ آمَنَّا بِهِ كُلٌّ مِّنْ عِندِ رَبِّنَا وَمَا يَذَّكَّرُ إِلاَّ أُوْلُواْ الألْبَابِ -3:7

    Yusuf Ali translation: (Y. Ali) He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say: “We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord:” and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.

    This verse is a clear proof for not just the validity of tafweed and delegating the meanings of mutashabihaat verses to Allah, but also commands it.

    This verse absolutely hammers their emotional blackmails that

    1) resorting to tafweed by the Sunnis is indirectly and effectively believing that the Prophet, peace be upon him, did not convey the entire message or taught all that he knew, wal 3eyadhu billaah.

    [Since the Quran DIRECTLY states that the meanings of these mutashaabihaat verses are best known by Allah, they can NOT accuse us of indirectly making such ugly implications of holding back knowledge towards the Prophet or the sahaba or our pious salaf and scholars]

    2) it is not the way of the sahaba and the salaf and the Sunnis just came up with it on their own.

    [Simple common sense states that since the verse was revealed and thus present in the Quran from the Prophet’s life time, it is imperative that the sahaba and the salaf would have surely acted on it too, and left the meanings of the mutashaabihaat to Allah, but then these people are the staunchest enemies of common sense! It can’t be possible that this is something new that the Sunnis have come up with.]

    Common Sunnis should learn to be firm in their 3aqidah and be bold in the face of such emotional blackmail and scare tactics used by these wahabi juhhaal and shayateen to lead them astray into the fire. Fear too is one of the weapons of shaytaan.

    The verse talks about seeking “taweel” of the mutashaabihaat and says that no one knows their “taweel” except Allah.

    It should be noted that the Sunnis do NOT claim to know exact taweel of the verses. When the Sunnis say they are doing taweel, all they are doing in reality is just negating unbefitting and literal meanings and similitude to creation and in order to help uninformed people, only pointing towards what CAN BE a befitting meaning.

    It is for this reason that the Sunnis who do taweel and tafweed both consider each other brothers in Ahlus Sunnah. Had one side claimed to know meanings of the mutashaabihaat definitively, surely they would have considered each other as two separate sects, which is not the case here.

    Insha Allah the sheikh can advise further on this and also provide insights from the tafseer of this verse.

  7. Hasan says:

    How do you people explain away so many narrations that confirm He swt is above His Arsh? Oh yeah! You then say we don’t know what they mean. Is it even remotely conceivable that Allah’s Messenger pbuh would introduce Allah to His creation and then not explain what the real meaning was and would leave it for people like YOU to explain to us what their ‘ REAL ‘ meaning was. This is a joke.

    • We do believe in His aboveness, but in the sense of might or majesty, not direction. This is a very common usage of this sort of term, and it is not ambiguous if you know Allaah, or simply that one should always understand words ascribed to Allaah in the most befitting sense possible. Noone is claiming that the words are unfit. However, some words have several meanings, some of which may be unfit. That is why it is important to understand them correctly. Why don’t you try to understand before you write or speak? If someone knows that Allaah is not like creation, because He is not created, then he will have no problems with any of this. The only way we can see that creation needs a creator is because we see that they have surfaces/limits/borders. There is nothing else that you can sense with your eyes. If you say Allaah is in a direction, in the sense that He could be pointed out, then you will have no way to prove the creation’s need for a creator, because something that can be pointed at must have a limit. You do not find that problematic? Listen, if you want to keep the rhetoric at the arrogant and argumentative level, where you try to attribute to us opinions we do not have, and you don’t make an honest effort to understand and address the arguments made, you will be moderated. No arguments here for the sake of arguing. There are plenty of forums for satisfaction of mean lusts.

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