According to the Wahabies Allah is literally above the throne without ever leaving it, AND literally in the sky of the world in the last third of the night (i.e. always, because the Earth is round, so it is always the last third of the night somewhere.) Anyone see a problem here? Then they say it is blasphemy to say that Allah is inside His creation (even though the sky of the world is below the other six created skies above it)…. Then, seemingly just to add to this mess, some of them also say that He is literally in the seventh sky.
Not only that, they also say He is literally encompassing the world and yet they also say it is kufr to believe He is mixed with it. So in their belief, He is encompassing the world (thus a surface outside creation’s borders), and in the first Sky (deep inside creation, below 6 other skies), and yet it is kufr to say He is mixed with creation or enters it. Perhaps we could call this a “self defeating belief system?” It is certainly no different from the christian belief that 1=3.
On top of this they explain that this mess of contradictory statements represents the simple belief that human nature inclines towards, and is free of complications. Yet when you try to show the contradictions in what they are saying, they shout: “KALAM!! Why do you use your mind?? Why do you engage in Philosophy?! It is Bidˆah. If you do not find all this intuitive, then there is something wrong with your natural inclinations (Fitra)!”
What it boils down to then is that they are exactly like the christian priests who tell their followers, “do not mix faith with reason, follow your heart!” As the scholars say, “Blasphemy is one nation.”
Sunni Answers 
as salām àlaikum yā shaikh !
Great point ! The wahabi belief of Allah is physically and literally up in the sky, pointing with their finger is meaningless.
Imagine for a moment that the whole earth is full off simple minded wahabis and so is the moon filled with wahabi astronauts.
Now imagine all of them pointing up answering the question – Where is Allah physically present ?
assalaamu alaikum
it is because they have departed from the sirat al mustaqeem that they have ended up contridicting their own statements in this life itself.
transfer the meaning of “above” to be “beyond” and that would land you to a realistic view of “above” since your mind does not allow you to think outside the box.
walaykumn salam
They are your words, not ours, and the contractions in meaning is what we are interested in, not the words.
alboriqee, what about the your beleifs regarding the last part of the night and how you say He is in the lower sky then? How does that reconcile with your thinking outside the box and your substitution of the word “beyond”?
That question, Ahmad, is predicatd that Allah revealed a typo, a contradiction. Allah said He rose above the Throne. Allah said the good words go up to Him, Allah said “Are you not afraid that HE WHO IS ABOVE ZTHE THRONE …..”
Likewise Allah revealed upon the tongue of His messenger “He descends to the lowest heaven in the last part of the night”
We beleive in them both because We believe that Allahs ability is not equaled to our ability. If He is above the Throne then He is above the Throne full stop. If He descends on the last third of the night, than that is what He does regardless of the tim zone factor and that there is no single point of night that He is not in the lowest heaven. We believe that ALlah has the power to dop what He said He does because we believe Allah is our Lord who can perform whatever He wishes and that is the sunni athari creed.
It seems you are unable to escape. Affirming your self contradictory beliefs does not make them less self-contradictory. Believing in the revealed texts is not always the same as taking them literally. The difference between us and you is that we believe in the texts and that they are not self contradictory in meaning.
Fear Allah, the one who is above his throne above the 7th heaven and descends to the lowest heaven on last 3rd of night as his majesty suit it. All that which you accuse Salafis off is stated in clearly in Quran n Hadith. You mock them? How evil is your speech, fear Allah. They Donot follow the heart, they follows whats been revealed…
–
Fear mongering does not change the fact that you contradict yourselves. Why don’t you just admit that not all of the above can be taken literally? By taking everything literally you make a mockery of Islam.
To the wahabis here; Since you guys believe that Allah is both above and inside the creation ‘literally’ as His majesty suits, then I would like to know, do you also say Allah is closer to us than our jugular vein? I have talked to many literalist wahabis but on this matter of He being closer to us than our jugular vein, they always use tawil and say that this verse is not to be taken literally( but that his knowledge is meant here), so what about you ?
… and another question to the wahabis here:
What about the verse:
Al-Baqara [2:115]
وَلِلّهِ الْمَشْرِقُ وَالْمَغْرِبُ فَأَيْنَمَا تُوَلُّواْ فَثَمَّ وَجْهُ اللّهِ إِنَّ اللّهَ وَاسِعٌ عَلِيمٌ
Why dont you take this verse also literally?
You say He is above His throne and descends to the lowest heaven in the last third of the night. It is ALWAYS the last third of the night somewhere… so are you saying He is perpetually in the lowest heaven? or are you saying He is perpetually ascending and descending? are you saying He is above His throne in Sydney, but in the lowest heaven in New York?
How idiotic are you to say that He needs to reside in the sky He created? Have you wondered where was He before He created the sky and the throne?
… and since the likes of tigerstyle believe wholeheartedly in taking verses literally, here’s one for you… make sure you take it LITERALLY and apply it to your wahabi leader bin baz and also the current grand mufti of the wahabis :
Surah Isra
وَمَن كَانَ فِي هَـذِهِ أَعْمَى فَهُوَ فِي الآخِرَةِ أَعْمَى وَأَضَلُّ سَبِيلاً 17:72
Yusuf Ali translation: But those who were blind in this world, will be blind in the hereafter, and most astray from the Path.
Remember, NO TAWIL.
The fact of the matter is wahabis are the most disgusting people with the sleaziest of characters and zero dignity. When they are corenered and have no come back they resort to such nonsensical emotional blackmail and/or changing the subject.
In fact this emotional blackmail based on a warped, non-sensical, nafsanic usool of fiqh and hadith* that they concoct based on their nafsanic whims is the tool by which they mislead the masses, with rubbish claims and bogus questions that prey on the masses’ lack of specialised religious knowledge and when nothing else works, emotional blackmail of Muslims by the “fear Allah, bin baz studied Islam longer than you did and devoted his life to deen… how much have you done for the deen? are you a scholar?” kind of comments and questions…
the real phrasing of this question should really be: ” [insert name of wahabi heretic, eg. albani] devoted his life to mocking and harming the deen and blatantly lieing when some SAHIH hadith did not suit the nonsense he uttered… ”
it still cracks me up… once I told a wahabi one of his “scholars” books contained rubbish… and he comes back with something like “it also contains verses from the Quran and ahadith of the Prophet (3alaihis salam)… you don’t want to talk like that about religious texts”… and I had to tell the guy, when someone says wahabi books contain rubbish, even an idiot will know that what is being rubbished is THEIR nonsensical interpretations of the verses and the ahadith… wahabis themselves say shia’s and qadiani’s books contain rubbish too… obviously their books also contain verses of the Quran (even if we assume ALL the ahadith they contain are fabrications)! funny they forget all these lines when THEY’re the ones bashing the Sunnis or other ahlul bid’ah wa dhalalah like themselves.
*(they claim to follow hadith only but even there they are just following nafsanic whims… recently some of them have started to say theyre following the Hanbali madhab, but thats another major lie)
hey brothers of islam, why are you all wasting your time? why u fight between yourselves to prove who got the last word?
No matter who is right and wrong, Allah removes his blessings from those brothers who fight between each others. Watever is wahabi, just check who you are and if you fulfilling your responsibility.
Allah has said that jannat is for those who believe in him, all his prophets, all his books, in angels and jinns, in the judgement day, tht there is life after death and evry good or bad thing is from Allah….
All of us follow same beliefs so y we fighting for some mere words??
May Allah guide us all
We don’t fight with brothers in Islam, but with figure worshipers, who call their idol “Aļļaah.” They worship something other than what we worship. Try to understand the issue before you speak.
ohhh yeah…so you want to say that wahabi do not believe in the oness of Allah…i fink this is wat you meant…Ask for forgivness to Allah for he is the all forgiving…and please if you are not a wahabi that does not mean that other school of thoughts follow other God or something else…
OK, this is the last time you post here unless you present a real argument. I never said that they don’t believe in the oneness of Allaah. I said they do not believe in Allaah. Why? Because the Creator is not that thing that they worship. Fakħruddiin Ar-Raaziyy said:
“Proofs tell us that the who says that God is a body is a disbeliever in God (who is greatly above and clear of flaws). The reason is that the God of the World exists, and He is not a body, or stationed in a body. So if the one who believes that God is a body denies this non-bodily existence, then he has disbelieved in God Himself. This means that the disagreement between the one that believes that God is a body, and the monotheist (i.e. in the Islamic sense, namely that God does not have a partner, part or a like in His self of attributes), is not based on a disagreement regarding attributes, but regarding the self (i.e. the identity of the one attributed with godhood.) It is sound to say then, that the one who believes that God is a body does not believe in Aļļaah…”
To illustrate, they are not worshiping Aļļaah Himself, because Allaah is not of the kind of things that have a direction or limit. In fact, He does not belong to a kind of things at all. His reality is different from anything else. The one that says Allaah is something in a direction and can be pointed at is therefore like a person that owes a person called Zayd money, and then when he wanted to pay the debt, he paid it to a cat called Zayd. Accordingly, the one that judges that the person with such a belief is a Muslim, has said that someone that does not actually worship Allaah is a Muslim, and that is extremely dangerous.
can you give the book and page number from this quote of Fakħruddiin Ar-Raaziyy. and a little bit more about who he is .barakallahu feek . God Bless
Take a look here As for his biography: FakħrudDiin Ar-Raaziyy (544-606 Hijriyy calendar) is by many regarded as the greatest scholar of his time, and the sixth renewer of the religion, for the beginning of the seventh century after the Hijrah. He is the Imaam of the scholars of the belief sciences. He devastated the deviant sects with his arguments. The anthropomorphists made it their habit to leave notes for him containing various insults. One time a note said that his wife was an adulteress. He read the note to the crowd and then said (in summary), “all of this is possible, but at least I do not believe that Aļļaah is in a place, which is impossible.” Az-Zirikliyy, Al-‘Aˆlaam (2002), 6/313. Taajuddiin As-Subkiyy (771 AH), Ţabaqaat Asħ-Sħaafiˆiyyah Al-Kubraa, 8/81-82. Al-Şafadiy, Al-Waafiy bi-l-Wafayaat, 4/176.
Wahab is the name of Allah & using his name as an abusive word is totally wrong. According to many ‘any person who is not a SUFI is a wahabbi’. This is also incorrect!
I had a slave-girl who used to herd sheep for me. One day I discovered that a wolf had killed one of her sheep, and I’m a man from the children of Adam, I get upset like they get upset, and I slapped her in the face. Then I went to the Prophet who impressed upon me the seriousness of my act. I said, ‘O Messenger of Allah, should I not set her free?’ He said, ‘Bring her to me.’ He asked her, ‘Where is Allah’, She said, ‘He is above the heavens.’ He said, ‘Who am I?’ She said, ‘You are the Messenger of Allah.’ He said, ‘Free her, for she is a believer.’ (Muslim)
The prophet (pbuh) is acknowledging the words of the slave girl that Allah is above the heavens. Will you call our prophet (pbuh) as wahabi?? (audhubillah)
Wahabi is not a name of Allaah, it is a name for a follower of Muhammad ibn AbdilWahhaab. I agree that being not sufi does not mean being wahabi. As for the hadith you mentioned. This hadith is not strong enough to establish a belief. Beliefs require proofs that provide certainty. Not many hadiths are of such a rank. This hadith in particular is singularly narrated (khabar waahid in hadith terminology). Not only that, it is narrated with different wordings. This means that it cannot be used to claim that the Prophet (sall-Allaahu-ˆalayhi wa sallam) used exactly such and such a wording. Not only that, the particular words you have translated differ from a very famous and well known Islamic principle. Namely that in order for someone to be considered a Muslim he MUST say that there is no god but Allaah. If she really said that Allaah is in the Sky, and nothing else, then this would not even imply that she believes in only one Creator. Without clearly stating that she believes there is only one god, she cannot be considered to have proclaimed her Islam. For all these reasons and more it is not permissible for anyone to claim that the Prophet (sall-Allaahu-ˆalayhi wa sallam) definitely uttered the words indicated by this hadith. So it cannot be used to establish a creed. This is without even getting into how the literal interpretation of this hadith, namely the claim that Allaah is in a location, contradicts what can be shown conclusively to be true of Allaah. Very importantly, this deviant claim is equivalent to denying that Allaah’s existence can be proven. So it is up to you, do you want to believe in a god who’s existence can be proven with a solid and consistent argument or not? I think this is what it really comes down to in the end.
You are just playing with words here. My teacher has never told me such nonsencce but instead make reference to Quran whereby it says that Allah is beyond the understanding of human…
Kindly explain how I “played with words” and told you “nonsense.” Please define this terminology and then show how you apply them to my words by quoting me. Make a logical argument based on sound premises – if you can. I presented you with an argument, and I quoted one of the greatest logicians in world history. To dismiss it as “nonsense” is pretty arrogant, and I think you are just hiding your ignorance and lack of ability to understand behind dismissive rhetoric. We can discuss the other things you wrote once this one is settled, because everything else hinges on it.
i apologize for my words but what i wanted to pass through my message is that we all are muslims first. In my country, being a wahabi, shia or whatever is not of big importance coz first we are muslims. i really wasted my time here explaining things. I might be less intelligent than you but i never says that this belief is false or whatever. It is true that some follow different hadiths but all end up in same Allah but some people cant understand that because their thoughts about Allah is different that doesnt mean Allah is not the same…Praise to he created us and to him is our return..
You did not explain anything. No one says that Allaah is different. What I was telling you is that if you worship a cat and call it Allaah, this does not mean that you are worshiping Allaah. That is why knowing Allaah is the most important thing in Islam. It is not enough to just call what you worship”Allaah,” so when someone worships a body, he is not worshiping Allaah, because Allaah is not a body. This is a mistake not only in attributes but in the self of what is worshiped. That is why calling it Allaah is not going to help, because the essential issue is what you worship, not what you call it. For this reason all rational muslims consider anthropomorphists non-Muslims if it becomes unequivocally clear that they believe Allaah is something in a location.
But how is your information linked wiz wahabi?
i sometimes do prayer behind an imam wahabi and dont find such difference..
You would not know if he was shaytan himself if he moved the way you usually do in prayer. You can’t know someone belief by how they move. What does this all have to do with wahabis? They believe that Allaah is a body, i.e. something with size, or in other words, something in a place.
Salaam
Mashallah, nice job exposing the wahhabis, keep it up… May Allah give you patience and more to help His Deen and exposing the Batil Ameen!!!!
Rizvi, it seems you are a not a muslim. Wahhabi is not a religious creed or a any political group, wahhabi is just a nickname that is associated by the people of falsehood. Muhammad Abdul Wahhab has not come wiz any new belief nor wiz any innovation but has rid Saudi Arabia from shia innovations. He had raised an army which was followed by thousands of other imams to get rid of false traditions in the holy land. Besides, tomorrow if your imam name is yusuf, then why dont you call yourself a yusufi?? And if you look at wat the “Wahhabi” followed is completely pure TAWHEED and by the law of shariaat, no false traditions or rituals or beliefs are associated wiz them.
The original contention is that Wahabis are not Muslims as they have the ridiculous belief described in the above article, so your speech is a jump to conclusions and way besides the point. You see, we do not buy into the idea that Muhammad Abdul Wahhaab or his followers “followed completely pure TAWHEED and the law of shariaat, no false traditions or rituals or beliefs are associated with them.” But the real question is, why did you not address the argument of the article? My guess is that you can’t so you resorted to name throwing and baseless claims.
“The original contention is that Wahabis are not Muslims as they have the ridiculous belief described in the above article”
It is bit these minor things that says if you are muslims are not. It is the accomplishment of the five pillars. And whatever concept they have about Allah is from authentic hadith. Besides Hanafi scholars also agree on the hadith that Allah descends on the lowest heaven to hear the supplications of their servant.
They do not accomplish the five pillars, because one of the pillars is believing in Allaah and His messenger (صلى الله عليه وسلم). A person who worships a huge thing in outer space is a space monster worshiper and is not worshiping Allaah, even if he calls the monster “Allaah.” Like those among the christians who say Jesus is Allaah. They call Jesus “Allaah”, but he is not, so they are not worshiping Allaah, even if they call what they worship “Allaah.” This is the most important part of the Islamic belief, and they are not in agreement with it. It is not minor at all. Finally, Ĥanafiyy scholars do not believe that Allaah is something that moves from one place to another, or is in a place in the first place. They all either keep silent about the hadiith’s meaning, or interpret it in an acceptable way, such as saying that it means that Allaah orders an Angel to descend. See also:
https://sunnianswers.wordpress.com/2009/02/09/the-simple-wahabi-belief-ii-contradiction-versus-narration/
https://sunnianswers.wordpress.com/2008/05/06/wahhabi-contention-asharis-contradict-themselves-by-affirming-seven-attributes-and-not-affirming-various-other-attributes/
This argument is ridiculous. We do not associate Allah with space nor wiz anything since kalimah tawheed means to belive inthe oness of Allah. Allah is independant of his creation. He exists before the creation of space and will exist after. We are not allowed to mix the creator wiz his creation. Allah is independant of every thing.
And The holy prophet said that Allah is evrything beyond human capacity to think. A simple example is that nature, light, space…are all creation of Allah, if human cant understand the creation of Allah, so how can he understand the creator itself.
Maybe you do not, but the source of the wahabi creed, Ibn Tayimiyyah, is not in agreement with you. See the table of contents for a sample of Ibn Taymiyyah’s call to space monster worship. In any case, my point is that the one that has such a belief does not believe in Allaah.
The Wahabis preach anthropomorphism, so that their followers fall prey to the false messiah Dajjal on its arrival.
Asalamualaikum
Sir,
(…snip…)
May Allah Taalah have mercy on all of you and guide you.
From perusing your website I am saddened to note that you have misrepresented some of the major scholars of Islam,I thus direct you yo the above websites for clarification.
Know that Allah subhanawatala is a witness over everything that we do,and one of the greatest sins and mistakes is to ‘knowingly’ lie and thus misleading others from the path of the true aqeedah.
Once again I pray that Allah aza wa jal guide you to His path…ameen ameen ameen.
Kind Regards
From a concerned Brother
Exactly where is the misrepresentation?
ALLAH EXIST WITHOUT A PLACE AND HE CREATED THE ARSH AS AN INDICATION OF HIS POWER AND NOT AS A PLACE FOR HIMSELF TO BE LOCATED:)
Allahu akbar.This is a dagger on the heart of wahabis.Thank you shaikh abu Adam.Do not forget me in your duaa.
Assalamu alaikum!
if allah is not above the sky then why do the prophet (pbuh) have to ascend to the heavens in mehraj??
Further, you say “According to the Wahabies Allah is literally above the throne without ever leaving it, AND literally in the sky of the world in the last third of the night (i.e. always, because the Earth is round, so it is always the last third of the night somewhere.) Anyone see a problem here?” – There is no problem here because Allah is independent of time and you are trying to bring Allah into 24 Hrs time frame!
“wahhab is the name of Allah and to use it as an abusive term itself is a great sin”
I need you to explain to me how you figure that the last third of the night is independent of time before I can answer you.
Please read my post carefully. I did not say”last third of the night is independent of time”. I said Allah is independent of time. Further I asked about mehraj, can you explain that as well? Why the prophet (pbuh) had to travel to the heavens??
Allaahu akbar, you people never cease to amaze me. I think this is a waste of my time, no pun intended, but please define time.
Ya, when people have no answer they use the phrase ‘waste of time’. Its you who have a problem with time and not me. And how conviniently you neglect the mehraj incident and divert the subject like defining time.
“Time is the order of events from the past through the present to the future,and a measure of the durations of them and the intervals between them” (wikipedia) It is measured in secs,mins,hrs,days,yrs, decades, centuries, etc
Now you address both mehraj and also the time issue.
I am not diverting anything. You yourself raised the issue of time. Let me ask you this, is the last 3rd of the night an event that can be measured in secs, etc. or not?
This was your original stand “According to the Wahabies Allah is literally above the throne without ever leaving it, AND literally in the sky of the world in the last third of the night (i.e. always, because the Earth is round, so it is always the last third of the night somewhere.) Anyone see a problem here?” So you have a problem with the last part of the night (i.e. time) and not me. Again, as usual you neglected addressing mehraj!!!
I am answering each and every line of your post, but you are conviniently choosing to neglect mehraj!
Yes, last part of the night can be measured in secs, hrs etc.
The sky, is it in time during the last 3rd of the night?
Salam Alaikum Dear Shaykh
It’s been a long time we saw you post. Barak Allahu feekum. Can you please remove the link in Syed Shanawaz’s name as his site is full of wahabi tripe. :)
wa3alaykumussalaam, ahlan bi-l-habiib! Thank you for the note. I’ll get to it.