Someone asked: In the book “Muhammad: The Messenger of Islam” by Hajjah Amina Adil mentions a Hadith thats says Allah created the light of Muhammad Sallallahu Alayhi Wa Sallam from HIS OWN LIGHT. What does this mean? This can’t mean that Muhammad, Sallallahu Alayhi Wa Sallim is a part of God or that God took a part of Himself and made His Messenger which is a kufr concept, so what does this hadith really mean?
This hadith is of mysterious origins and not authenticated. To put it mildly: it cannot be used as a proof in Aqidah matters or to interpret plain statements in the Quran or sound hadiths. That being said, the phrase that was translated as “HIS OWN LIGHT” is a genitive (possessive) construction to indicate the importance of that light, like when someone says “Allah’s house” meaning the Ka`bah, not that Allah is in a place, because Allah existed before place and He did not change after it became existent.
Someone asked: And what do you say when some Sufis say that the Arabic words AHAD and AHMED are the same and the only difference is the Arabic letter Meem in AHMED which presents Muhammad, Sallallahu ‘Alayhi Wa Sallim, so what do they mean by this, isn’t this sort of leading or implying shirk?
Imaginary talk without a linguistic basis.
Someone asked: And how do you make tawassul, what do you say when for example you want to make tawassul through Imam Nawawi for example? Do you raise your hands while calling on Imam Nawawi? Do you say “O Nawawi please ask Allah to cure me of a sickness.” How do you exactly do it?
The phrase: “O Nawawi please ask Allah to cure me of a sickness” is fine, as it is plain in being a mere request for intercession.
Authored by Shaykh Abu Adam al Naruiji
Sunni Answers 
Salaam alaykum,
I warn all Muslims from the blatant fabrications and deviations on this site. A website that openly calls to major shirk by calling upon other than Allaah, amongst many other deviations.
Wake up, Imaam Nawawi cannot hear you!! he cannot hear your calls. Rather, it is ALlaah, the Exalted, who hears, and responds, and COMMANDS ALL OF YOU to call upon Him ALone, without any partners.
Allaah says: Unquestionably, for Allah is the pure religion. And those who take protectors besides Him [say], “We only worship them that they may bring us nearer to Allah in position.” Indeed, Allah will judge between them concerning that over which they differ. Indeed, Allah does not guide he who is a liar and [confirmed] disbeliever.
SubhanAllaah! Look at the noble verse. Even the muskrikeen of Makkah affirmed that their supplications to other than Allaah was worship, and yet you deny that when you call upon Imam Nawawi. You deny this is worship to escape the charge of shirk. But sorry, changing the name doesn’t change the reality, the phrase ‘ O Nawawi please ask Allaah to cure me of a sickness’. is major shirk through and through.
Why do you not trust in Allaah to help you, to cure you, if you were sincere, free of your shirk, you would rely upon ALlaah alone, in hope, and fear, and you would trust in Him alone.
BUt you think exactly how the mushrikeen of Makkah thought. They only called upon their idols because they thought they were sinful, and sought intercession through these idols, to increase their chances of dua’s being accepted.
The hindus think the same. THe Christians think the same. THe Buddists think the same.
Allaah says: (in the meaning) “Call upon Me; I will respond to you.” Indeed, those who disdain My worship will enter Hell [rendered] contemptible. (40:60)
Perhaps you should ask yourselves what every Prophet of Allaah was sent to mankind for. To call them to believe in Allaah? No! Most of mankind have ALWAYS believed in ALlaah, the problem is that they refuse in their ignorance, and arrogance, to purely submit to Him Alone in all forms of worship.
Allaah says: (in the meaning) : We had certainly sent Noah to his people, and he said, “O my people, worship Allah; you have no deity other than Him. Indeed, I fear for you the punishment of a tremendous Day. 7:59
Perhaps you need to reflect upon what is this worship that Allaah demands, and commands, from every single human being. It is not only the belief in his Lordship, and His Asmaa was sifaat, but His sole Right to be worshipped.
How can you say that ‘calling out to a dead person’ is not worship??? This is such an amazing false statement. Rather, it is shirk, for you are giving the Right of Allaah (that you only call upon him, that you only make dua to him), to a dead person. And that is the major shirk that the Prophet Muhammad (sall Allaahu alaihi wa Sallam) and His Companions (radi Allaahu anhum) fought against, and killed many of the mushrikeen for, and made their blood and wealth free to take.
If Allaah, the alMighty, permits these words of mine to remain on this site then I ask Him to benefit the Muslims by them. Indeed He is the Best of Helpers.
I ask Him to guide the straying ones back to the straight path of Pure Monotheism.
Ben Khalifa said: I warn all Muslims from the blatant fabrications and deviations on this site.
Comment: Like what? Give us some examples to discuss.
Ben Khalifa said: A website that openly calls to major shirk by calling upon other than Allaah, amongst many other deviations.
Comment: First of all, no one called to calling upon other than Aļļaah on this site. All we have said it is permitted as long as one does not believe the called upon to have actual and real influence on things, and that one does not ask for something that clearly expresses a kufr belief, such as if one asked for forgiveness of sins from other than Aļļaah, or for creating something.
Merely calling upon other than Aļļaah is not shirk, because shirk is to worship other than Aļļaah, and merely calling someone is not worship of the called upon.
Should someone claim that every du’a is worship then how would they understand the following verse in the Holy Qur’an:
لاَّ تَجْعَلُواْ دُعَآءَ الرَّسُولِ بَيْنَكُمْ كَدُعَآءِ بَعْضِكُمْ بَعْضاً
“Make not the addressing (du’a ) of the Prophet among you like your addressing one another…”
So basically we cannot interpret du`a to mean worship in every context. A call without worshiping the called upon is just a call, and it is not shirk. Moreover, calling a person who has died is done every day in every single one of the 5 daily prayers, where a Muslim says, “Ya Ayyuhan-Nabi,” i.e. “O Prophet!” Clearly then, calling a person who has died is permitted, even a duty in this case.
The difference between calling Aļļaah, and calling a human being or another creature, is that one calls Aļļaah with the most extreme humility and the belief that Aļļaah is attributed with godhood. When a Muslim calls a creation it is not worship, because it is not done with the same level of humility as when calling Aļļaah, and not with the belief that the one who is called has any attribute of godhood. This is different again from the idolaters’ calling of their idols, because they believed their idols to have godhood.
It should be noted again, however, that one cannot call a creation to ask for something that necessarily implies an attribute of godhood. Examples would be if someone asked for the creation of something, or forgiveness from sins, or reward for good deeds. This would indeed be blasphemy, because he has attributed to that creation an attribute of godhood.
One can ask for other than such things from other than Aļļaah. This is not sinful, as long as one believes that the one who is asked does not have actual influence over something, or some event, independently of Aļļaah. All Muslims must believe that everything happens by the Will of Aļļaah, and believing otherwise is definitely blasphemy.
Ben Khalifa said: Wake up, Imaam Nawawi cannot hear you!! he cannot hear your calls. Rather, it is Allaah, the Exalted, who hears, and responds, and COMMANDS ALL OF YOU to call upon Him ALone, without any partners.
Comment: you are mixing between calling and worshiping, which are two different things, and one does not necessarily involve the other.
Allaah says: Unquestionably, for Allah is the pure religion. And those who take protectors besides Him [say], “We only worship them that they may bring us nearer to Allah in position.” Indeed, Allah will judge between them concerning that over which they differ. Indeed, Allah does not guide he who is a liar and [confirmed] disbeliever.
SubhanAllaah! Look at the noble verse. Even the muskrikeen of Makkah affirmed that their supplications to other than Allaah was worship, and yet you deny that when you call upon Imam Nawawi.
Comment: They said that they worship the idols, they did not say, as you seem to think, that calling is worship. You are mixing up things. Take another look at the aayah. The prophet encouraged calling him for intercession. One evidence is that it was authentically narrated, by the consensus of all, that a blind man came to the Prophet to get cured from blindness, and the Messenger of Aļļaah taught him to say:
“اللهم إني أسألك وأتوجه إليك بنبيك محمد نبي الرحمة يا محمد إني أتوجه بك إلى الله في حاجتي هذه لتقضى لي اللهم فشفعه في”
“O Aļļaah, verily I address You by Your Prophet Muĥammad, the Prophet of Mercy. O Muĥammad, verily I address Aļļaah through you for my need so and so. So accept, O Aļļaah, his intercession for me.”
As clearly seen from this ĥadiitħ, this supplication does not have the meaning of worshiping the Prophet, neither before his death, nor after. It is simply hoping that the supplication will be accepted by mentioning the person definitely accepted by Aļļaah in the supplication. In other, words that the blessedness of this person will be a reason for acceptance, not that one worshiped this person, or believed that he can influence events independently of Aļļaah’s Will.
Even Naaşir Al-Diin Al-‘Albaaniy eventually threw in the towel. This was after using all the tricks in his book, such as hiding facts contrary to his claim and taking things out of context. All of this to claim weak all of the ĥadiitħs of the Sunnis that prove Tawassul (seeking intercession) by a person as legitimate. Maybe in the end even he felt shy from lying and misleading too much, so he said: “If it is correct that the blind man made Tawassul by the self of the Prophet then it will be something special for him alone, and not shared with other than him among prophets or pious people, and likening others to him is something sound opinion does not accept …1”
This restriction he mentions does not hold, because ˆUmar made Tawassul by Al-ˆAbbaas, as he himself admits. But fanaticism blinds….
Ben Khalifa said: You deny this is worship to escape the charge of shirk.
Comment: you still have not shown that merely calling is worship, so the charge is from your baseless opinion only.
Ben Khalifa said: But sorry, changing the name doesn’t change the reality,
Comment: What name was changed?
Ben Khalifa said: the phrase ‘ O Nawawi please ask Allaah to cure me of a sickness’. is major shirk through and through. Why do you not trust in Allaah to help you, to cure you, if you were sincere, free of your shirk, you would rely upon Allaah alone, in hope, and fear, and you would trust in Him alone.
Comment: To ask someone for help does not mean one does not believe that Aļļaah is the only one that can cure a disease in reality. According to your logic, going to the doctor is major shirk.
Ben Khalifa said: But you think exactly how the mushrikeen of Makkah thought. They only called upon their idols because they thought they were sinful, and sought intercession through these idols, to increase their chances of dua’s being accepted.
Comment: They did not just call upon them, they worshiped them to get intercession. Calling someone for intercession is not shirk. People will call the prophets for intercession on the Day of Judgment, as it was narrated by Al-Bukħaariy (#1748 ) that the companion Ibn ˆUmar said,
“إِنَّ الناس يَصِيرُونَ يوم الْقِيَامَةِ جُثًا كُلُّ أُمَّةٍ تَتْبَعُ نَبِيَّهَا يَقُولُونَ يا فُلانُ اشْفَعْ يا فُلانُ اشْفَعْ حتى تَنْتَهِيَ الشَّفَاعَةُ إلى النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم فَذَلِكَ يوم يَبْعَثُهُ الله الْمَقَامَ الْمَحْمُودَ”,
which means, “The people on the Day of Judgment become like one body, each nation follow their prophet saying, “O You! Intercede! O You! Intercede!” This is until intercession ends up with the Prophet – may Aļļaah raise his rank. This is the day that Aļļaah raises him to Al-Maqaam Al-Maĥmuud.” Al-Maqaam Al-Maĥmuud or “The Praised Position” refers to his position as the greatest intercessor that people of all nations, even followers of other prophets, resort to.
Ben Khalifa said: The hindus think the same. THe Christians think the same. THe Buddists think the same.
Allaah says: (in the meaning) “Call upon Me; I will respond to you.” Indeed, those who disdain My worship will enter Hell [rendered] contemptible. (40:60)
Comment: This is a misleading translation. The word you translated as “call” here means “worship” or “call in worship.”
Ben Khalifa said: Perhaps you should ask yourselves what every Prophet of Allaah was sent to mankind for. To call them to believe in Allaah? No! Most of mankind have ALWAYS believed in ALlaah, the problem is that they refuse in their ignorance, and arrogance, to purely submit to Him Alone in all forms of worship.
Comment: This is incorrect. Allaah said in suuratu-l-kaafiruun, the 109th Suurah in the Quran:
“قُلْ يَا أَيُّهَا الْكَافِرُونَ (1) لا أَعْبُدُ مَا تَعْبُدُونَ (2) وَلا أَنْتُمْ عَابِدُونَ مَا أَعْبُدُ (3)”
which is an order to Prophet Muhammad to say: “O Blasphemers, I do not worship what you worship, and you do not worship what I worship.” The the statement “O Blasphemers!” addresses all non-Muslims. Then it states about them all: “You do not worship what I worship,” i.e. that non-Muslims do not worship what Muslims worship. For example, since the christians and jews believe that the Creator is in a place, but in reality Aļļaah is not in a place, they are not worshiping Aļļaah.
Ben Khalifa said: Allaah says: (in the meaning) : We had certainly sent Noah to his people, and he said, “O my people, worship Allah; you have no deity other than Him. Indeed, I fear for you the punishment of a tremendous Day. 7:59
Perhaps you need to reflect upon what is this worship that Allaah demands, and commands, from every single human being. It is not only the belief in his Lordship, and His Asmaa was sifaat, but His sole Right to be worshipped.
Comment: There is no disagreement about no one deserving worship but Aļļaah.
Ben Khalifa said: How can you say that ‘calling out to a dead person’ is not worship??? This is such an amazing false statement.
Comment: Well, for one we call the prophet every day in our prayer. That will be at least 9 times daily in the tashahhud.
Ben Khalifa said: Rather, it is shirk, for you are giving the Right of Allaah (that you only call upon him, that you only make dua to him), to a dead person. And that is the major shirk that the Prophet Muhammad (sall Allaahu alaihi wa Sallam) and His Companions (radi Allaahu anhum) fought against, and killed many of the mushrikeen for, and made their blood and wealth free to take.
Comment: Nowhere in the scriptures is it stated that one cannot call someone other than Aļļaah for another purpose than worship. You are mixing between the two meanings of the word dua in Arabic. It can mean “call” and it can mean “worship.” It can also mean both, such as when you ask Aļļaah for something.
Ben Khalifa said: If Allaah, the all-Mighty, permits these words of mine to remain on this site then I ask Him to benefit the Muslims by them. Indeed He is the Best of Helpers. I ask Him to guide the straying ones back to the straight path of Pure Monotheism.
Comment: If you sat down and actually thought about what you are saying, clarifying your definitions, and so on, you would find you have nothing to hold on to in your claims.
According to Ben Khalifa, it is shirk to call “911” and ask for help when one’s house is on fire.
Dear Shaikh
I understand that there is a difference between calling and worship but please tell me is it necessary(or encouraged) to call upon a DEAD man for help. Is there any hadith which says this is a good thing to do? because I find it something utterly unnecessary.
Even if the statement mentioned is not shirk do we have to even bother about using it in our prayers?
We do call upon living people for help and that is not shirk but these people are living. How do we know for sure that dead men listen to what we say from wherever we say, considering the fact that there is a barzaq between us an them. Does this burzaq have directional properties? i.e. people on the other side hear us but we can’t hear them.
Also how do we know that an imam is truly a righteous person? Only Allah knows where they really stand. So isn’t it a risky affair to call upon someone just like that.
brother xrillionaire
every salah you are seeking help of Prophet sallallahu alaihi wassallam.
how?
By the sallam on prophet sallallahu alaihi wassallam.
when Prophet (sallallahu alaihi wassallam) hears your sallaam, beloved Prophet (sallallahu alaihi wassallam) returns a salaam . i.e Prophet Sallallahu alaihi wassallam is helping you by asking Allah to give you peace.
dont you think that duaa for you is a great help. this is a form of isthighasa or there is isthighasa inside the salaam.
for eg: the Prophet sallallahu alaihi wassallam taught us that the best dua is “Alhamdulillah”. but what dua is there in it. yes there is duaa inside it.
Allah says In the quran Nastaeenu bisabri wa salaah. seek help with prayer.
And prayer consists of dhikr, quran recitation, salaam on Prophets, salaam on saliheen etc. and with that you get help of Allah.
Imam Razi rahimahullah in his tafseer has said there is shafaat inside the sallam.
Imam Ibn Hajr al Haythami rahimahullah has also mentioned about this in al jawhar al munazzam.
Nice. Let me add to this that someone not seeing a need for something does not make it forbidden or disliked in the religion.
Note also that while the body becomes inactive at death, the soul lives on, and the soul can have strong powers, as created and willed by Aļļaah. For example, Aļļaah encourages us to seek refuge from the evil eye, which is when someone looks at someone in envy, wishing him harm. The harm of the evil eye can kill, and this powerful effect is something that comes from the soul of the envious. Another indication of such power is the fact that the dead can hear peoples footsteps over them under several feet of soil, as stated in ĥadiitħ. This is much stronger hearing than that of this life.
If someone calls a dead person for help he is hoping that he will hear and be able to help, that is all, and there is no reason why this should be shirk, or harmful, as long as he is not attributing godhood to the dead person, like the power to influence events in reality, or by asking him for forgiveness for sins, or to create something, or the like. It is a form of intercession, that is all.
Actually that’s a problem with all wahabis and wannabe wahabis. They have this fixation with dead people!
1) They, like athiests think death is total annihilation OR in the very least without any qati’ proof say that the soul is totally disconnected with the world of the living and/or totally impotent in any matter spiritual or physical OR whatever proof their is against their nafsanic whims, it is dismissed as either “inauthentic” or “classified as daeef” by something that they call as mujaddid as-sunnah albani, who is in fact mudhill ul-ummah. They apply this concept of total seperation and disconnection of the dead from the spiritual OR material world of the living even to the prophets. Thats why they flip even when a person says “O Prophet pray to Allah for me.”
2) They fail to realise that creation is creation. Living or dead. A lot of them say shirk the minute they hear the mention of a dead person. This stems from their belief (and a very sternly pre-set imagination) in something like a fat old man sitting on an armchair up in heaven (probably wearing red overalls), that they are unable to see. They are so preoccupied with their “belief” and “tawhid” in an unseen physical entity at a defined location, the minute someone else calls on another unseen physical entity at a defined location (a dead wali in a grave OR a living wali in another land OR an angel of God somewhere in the sky) their “tawhid” is shaken and they feel the need to howl “shirk” at innocent Muslims coz I mean it IS “shirk” from their perspective when you accord the rights of one “unseen physical entity at a defined location” to another “unseen physical entity at a defined location.”
Allah help this ummah against their filth, Ameen.
Yes, the root of this paranoia is their kufr belief that Aļļaah is in a place. See also the below with comments:
https://sunnianswers.wordpress.com/2008/05/25/wahhabi-contentions-1-asharism-and-sufism-were-separate-and-merged-and-2-calling-to-other-than-allah-is-shirk/
That was very rude of you Attari. You cannot call people with derogatory labels just like that.
All I wanted to know was if there is a clear and explicit hadith which allows calling upon the dead for help as there are so many conflicting opinions on the web. The hadith of the blind man and of Hazrat Umar making tawassul are criticised on many sites. Moreover the intercessors there are living people.
If calling on idols is shirk only because the callers attach Godhood to them then does it mean that if you bow down to an idol without intending to worship it then that is something permissible? I dont think so
And I know that my not seeing a need for something doesn’t make it forbidden but it atleast prompts me to seek an explanation.
So it would be appreiated if you guys provide that explanation without any negative criticism.
let me answer.
Assalamu ^alaykum.
The
Xrillionaire,
Assalaamu^alaykum,
Let me comment on what you said briefly.
You said:That was very rude of you Attari. You cannot call people with derogatory labels just like that.
Comment: what he said is unfortunately true.
You said: All I wanted to know was if there is a clear and explicit hadith which allows calling upon the dead for help as there are so many conflicting opinions on the web. The hadith of the blind man and of Hazrat Umar making tawassul are criticised on many sites. Moreover the intercessors there are living people.
Comment: Such ĥadiths are criticized because they are proofs against them, that is all. The point about the intercessors being dead has no bearing on the matter. The Prophet taught the man to call him- without any restrictions.
You said: If calling on idols is shirk only because the callers attach Godhood to them then does it mean that if you bow down to an idol without intending to worship it then that is something permissible? I dont think so.
Comment: bowing to an idol is kufr, even if it is not with the intention to worship, not because of worshiping other than Aļļaah, but because he did something only a kaafir would do. This shows that he is mocking Islam, and mocking Islam is kufr. The prophet said, “the one that imitates a people is one of them.” On the other hand, prostrating to a person, with the intention to greet, but not to worship, is not kufr. In other words, the act of prostrating is not in itself worship, but it depends on the intention.
As you can see, it is essential to define worship, and what better place to find a definition than the dictionary? The meaning of the word “ˆibaadah” in Arabic, which is the word translated as “worship” in English means “obedience with humbleness,” as stated in dictionaries “Al-Mişbaaĥ Al-Muniir,” “An-Nihaayah Fiy Għariib Al-Ĥadiitħ,” and “Al-Qaamuus Al-Muĥiiţ.” There is no question, however, that merely being humbly obedient to someone is not equivalent to worship. To reach to the meaning of actual worship, we would have to say: “the most extreme humility that is only deserved by the one that has the greatest status.” This is the definition stated by Al-Aşbahaaniy in his famous dictionary “Mufradaat Al-Qur’aan2”.
You said: And I know that my not seeing a need for something doesn’t make it forbidden but it at least prompts me to seek an explanation. So it would be appreciated if you guys provide that explanation without any negative criticism.
Comment: I do not think Attari’s words were aimed at you at all, but in any case, did you take a look at today’s post? I think it might help you to see what is going on, along with the definition of worship just above.
xrillionnaire, I don’t think I called you or anyone anything. I just stated the facts about wahabis in general. Other than that, I only called albani for what he is. I despise that disgusting liar and for very good reason.
Dear Shaikh
I thought about what you said and there is one argument that prevents me from accepting your view that “The point of intercessors being dead has no bearing on the matter” which is as follows-
1 This life is a test
2 Whatever we do in this life would be the basis for our judgement
3 There are verses in the Quran where the disbelievers ask Allah to send them back to the world when they see that death has arrived so that they could work righteous deeds and make up for their sins.
4 But their request is not met beause their term has expired and good deeds done now would not help them.
Of course Allah knows best but this is the point that I want to stress. Here we come to see that once people’s term has expired their deeds no longer matter. So what if someone argues that asking a righteous person to make du’aa’ for you when he is still alive is permissible, because there is the hope that his du’aa’ may be answered because of his righteousness but not when he has died even if he can hear you.
Also consider the following verse of the Quran-“And (remember) when Allaah will say (on the Day of Resurrection): “O ‘Eesaa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)! Did you say unto men: ‘Worship me and my mother as two gods besides Allaah?’ ” He will say: “Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right (to say).” [al-Maa’idah 5:116]
Here Allah asks Prophet Jesus(peace be upon him) as to why people took him and his mother as Gods besides Him. But as far as I know christians dont consider Mary the mother of Jesus(pbuh) as god. But Allah is still condemning the act of calling on to her. Doesn’t this mean that calling dead people is not permissible regardless of whether godhood is attached to them or not?
I request the brothers out there please dont go alll huffy as I am just trying to clarify my doubts.
You are confusing this issue.
1. The act of calling someone does don’t necessitate worshiping the one who was called. If that was the case then it would not be permission to call someone while they are alive.
2. It is not permissible to restrict something in the the Religion without a proof. Meaning, one can not say that it is not permissible call someone after they have died unless it is mentioned in the Qur’an, As-Sunnah or by Ijma’. And there is no such religious proof to restrict tawassul to the living person.
3. It is as if you think the status of a person to Allah vanishes after they die. This is far from the truth! Just because the Prophet died it does not mean that he is no longer the best of the creations (contrary to what the wahhabis claim). Some wahhabis have referred to the Prophet as “a bag of bones.”
4. Every muslim of this Nation benefited from Prophet Musa after his death when he told Prophet Muhammad to ask Allah to reduce the number of obligatory prayers. Now, one might say “well this was extraordinary”. The response would be “yes it is”. Similar to the benefit of the pious person or martyr who has died.
5. Muslims benefit from seeing Prophets and pious people in their dreams all the time.
6. Anyone who worships other than Allah is a blasphemer. Every muslim knows this. Seeking tawassul by a dead person is not worship therefore one can not equate the two. Otherwise, it is as if one is saying that “the Prophet taught the people an act of shirk” or one would say “the Prophet taught the people an act which can become shirk but he neglected to make that clear.” Woe to any blasphemer who says such a thing.
The companion Uthman Ibn Hunayf taught a blind man to make tawassul by the Prophet after the death of the Prophet. Who among the companions declared Uthman Ibn Hunayf a mushrik? None of them!
When the Bedouin went to the grave of the Prophet and addressed the Prophet by saying “Ya RasulAllah, istasqi li-ummatika fa’innahum laqad halaku” [O’ Messenger of Allah, ask Allah for rain for your nation, for certainly they will be destroyed]. Umar Ibn Khattab knew about this and he didn’t say it was shirk. Why? Because it wasn’t.
No one is obligated to go and make tawassul by Shaykh Abdul-Qadir Al-Jilaniyy or the like. However, we are obligated to recognize the permissibility of tawassul because the Prophet made it permissible!
The kaafir after death is already in torture, and has no intercession for himself let alone others. How can you draw an analogy from this kaafir to someone like a Prophet or a Waliyy? This is very far-fetched.
As for Mary, you mentioned the translation of the aayah: Did you say unto men: ‘Worship me and my mother as two gods besides Allaah?’ ” Then you say: “But as far as I know christians don’t consider Mary the mother of Jesus(pbuh) as god. But Allah is still condemning the act of calling on to her.”
I am not following you at all, because the aayah is about considering her as a god, not about calling. Your assertion that they do not consider her god is incorrect, the catholics call her “mother of god.” Ibn Al-Jawziyy said regarding this issue: “What if someone objected saying, “the christians did not take her as a god, so how does Allah say that about them”? The answer is that when they said, “she did not give birth to a human, she only gave birth to a god,” then they have effectively claimed that she is in terms of her parts like the one she gave birth to, so they became like someone saying that she is god.” (Zaad Al-Masiir)
زاد المسير :فإن قيل : فالنصارى لم يتخذوا مريم إلهاً ، فكيف قال الله تعالى ذلك فيهم؟ فالجواب : أنهم لما قالوا : لم تلد بشراً ، وإِنما ولدت إِلهاً ، لزمهم أن يقولوا : إِنها من حيث البعضية بمثابة مَن ولدته ، فصاروا بمثابة من قاله .
ok thanks
looks like this argument doesn’t hold up.
I knew you would point out tht kafir and prophets cannot be compred in this case but is there evidence that the same applies to Waliyys or are we making use of Qiyas(analogical resoning)?
Also what about the jews and christians who took the graves of their prophets and saints as places of worship for which the Prophet(peace be upon him) asked Allah to curse them? How did they in this case attach godhood to the saints?
wassalam alaikum
waˆalaykumussalaam,
I don’t understand your first question, what “same” are we talking about?
As for the graves, this is about prostrating towards graves as a qiblah, or on them. It is not about visiting, for the Prophet encouraged that.
I think I have seen mentioned either on here or on comments under a different post regarding “dua” being worship only:
71:6 but my call has only caused them to flee farther and farther away [from Thee].
Falam yazidhum duAAaee illa firaran
فَلَمْ يَزِدْهُمْ دُعَائِي إِلَّا فِرَارًا (71:6
This is from Surah Nuh, talking about Nuh, alaihis salam’s CALL to his people. In fact thats how even wahabis translated the Arabic word “duAAee” into English… “call”. Not a soul on Allah’s green earth can deny that the word DUAAEE is used by Nuh alaihis salam as stated in the Quran….
AND THAT
Nuh alaihis salam has explicitly stated he has made DUA to the disbelievers…. obviously his DUA to them is his call to them to embrace Islam.
I think no wahabi after this can say “dua ONLY means worship” . The Quran clearly vouches for the fact it doesn’t, without even us going into linguistics. If they say dua only means worship, what will they say about Nuh alaihis salam’s “DUA” to his people?
This thread also has other material regarding istighatha (which really falls under the chapter of tawassul):
http://www.marifah.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=2981&st=0&gopid=13291&
Can the moderator please correct my comment to:
“Not a soul on Allah’s green earth can deny that the word DUAAEE is used by Nuh alaihis salam as stated in the Quran” …. and remove the word “not” after “DUAEE is”. It was a typo. Jazak Allah
Done.
Every believer by default can intercede.
[43:86] (pickthall)
And those unto whom they cry instead of Him possess no power of intercession, saving him who beareth witness unto the Truth knowingly.
tafsir ibn abbas:
(And those unto whom they cry) those whom they worship (instead of Him possess no power of intercession) He says: the angels have no power to intercede in favour of anybody, (saving him who beareth witness unto the Truth) the testification that there is no deity save Allah, sincerely believing in it (knowingly) knowing deep in their hearts it is the Truth. This was revealed about the Banu Malih who claimed the angels were the daughters of Allah.
tafsir al jalalayn:
And those whom they, the disbelievers, call on, [those whom] they worship, besides Him, that is, besides God, have no power of intercession, for anyone, except those who bear witness to the truth, that is, those who say ‘there is no god except God’, with [full] knowledge, in their hearts of what they have testified to with their tongues — such are Jesus, Ezra, and the angels, who will intercede for believers.
Note that dua here has been wrongly translated as “cry unto” or “call on”. The correct translation is “worship.” This is the source of all this fuss.
please also tell me how you counter the explicit and separate mention of calling for help and worshiping being only for Allah (in Surah Fatiha)
Thee alone we worship
And thee alone we ask for help
We only worship Allaah. Asking someone for help, however, or calling someone, even if the person is dead or absent, is not necessarily worship. Rather, the meaning of worship in the Arabic language is the most extreme submission and humility. This you can find in all Qur’aan commentaries and dictionaries.
As for calling for help. This does not mean that all calling for help is worship, otherwise there would be no Muslims left on earth, even wahabis. Rather, it has two main interpretations.
The first is that “And thee alone we ask for help” here is the start of the supplication that follows, namely “guide us on the straight path.” So the meaning is “you alone we ask to guide us on the straight path (the straight path being Islam.)”
The second is to say that it means that certain types of asking for help are only for Allaah. This asking for help is not about the asked being present or not. The mainstream saying is that it is asking for help in the sense of the real and actual help, which is the creation of our actions in obedience and of all of our needs. So if you ask a human being for help, you know that the help you get is actually in reality from Allaah, and that asking a human being for it is only a means for getting help that Allaah has created. The only one that deserves to be asked for actual and real help then, is Allaah.
As you can see, these two interpretations are close, because “you alone we ask to guide us on the straight path,” means you are asking Allaah to create the ability to worship Him in you.